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| 1. | remote backup software - free report (mind) | 349 sor | ||||||
| 2. | booksearch (mind) | 9 sor | ||||||
| 3. | Re: Post Anarchism Remarks (mind) | 13 sor | ||||||
| 4. | Re: Pataki (mind) | 18 sor | ||||||
| 5. | Re: booksearch (mind) | 29 sor | ||||||
| 6. | Re: booksearch (mind) | 18 sor | ||||||
| 7. | Re: Pataki (mind) | 27 sor | ||||||
| 8. | Re: Illegal Immigration (mind) | 16 sor | ||||||
| 9. | Re: booksearch (mind) | 11 sor | ||||||
| 10. | Re: Illegal Immigration (mind) | 26 sor | ||||||
| 11. | 2nd EUROPEAN E CONFERENCE ON A&E: CALL FOR CONTRIBUTORS (mind) | 52 sor | ||||||
| 12. | Elections (US and Hungary) (mind) | 139 sor | ||||||
| 13. | Re: Illegal Immigration (mind) | 29 sor | ||||||
| 14. | Re: Elections (US and Hungary) (mind) | 16 sor | ||||||
| 15. | Re: Pataki (mind) | 21 sor | ||||||
| 16. | Re: Illegal Immigration (mind) | 16 sor | ||||||
| + - | remote backup software - free report (mind) | VÁLASZ | Feladó: | |||||
Apparently-To: |
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| + - | booksearch (mind) | VÁLASZ | Feladó: | |||||
I would like to ask for help to find the book "This above all" published before the end of WW2, written by Eric Knight of the "Lassie" -fame. I read it in my teens in Hungarian "Legy hu magadhoz" and would like to check it out in English, if it was really as good as I remember. So far I did not find any trace of it in Manchester bookshops/libraries, it does not appear as ever been published, but I did not look further, it is much easier to ask your esteemed lot... Thanks, |
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| + - | Re: Post Anarchism Remarks (mind) | VÁLASZ | Feladó: | |||||
> Please gentlemen, your discussion is recondite enough and
>eschalogical enough without mistranslations like "ghostly wisdom" for the
>German "Geisteswissenschaft"! -;). Try "science of the intellect" and
>it works a lot better!
A few centuries ago that mistranslation would be the right translation, when
English was not so thoroughlie larded with Latin. What is wors, the better
is not even a simple noun-phraze, but a noun with prepozitional phraze.
So fallen is this language!
-*-**-*-**-**-*-*-
Sir, we are a nest of singing birds.
Of Pembroke College, Oxford. p.75. 1730
Samuel Johnson
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| + - | Re: Pataki (mind) | VÁLASZ | Feladó: | |||||
>Does anybody know the etimology of `Pataki'? > >Haldun 'patak' means 'creek' in hungarian, the 'i' (pronounce like y in friendly) means 'from' or 'by' so 'Pataki' means the person who lives by the creek. According to _A Magyar Nyelv Torteneti-Etimiologiai Szotara_ (Etymological Dictionary of the Hungarian Language) [Akademiai Kiado, Budapest 1976] 'patak' derives from old slavic 'potok' meaning 'muddy depression' and means 'body of flowing water smaller then a river' and all slavic languages except serbian have the word. I have heard that some people dispute the reliability of this dictionary on the grounds that it exagerates hungarian borrowing from slavic and other languages in order to denigrate hungarian culture. In this view, the fact that serbian is missing a derivative of 'potok' could indicate that the other slavic languages borrowed it from hungarian. The dictionary doesn' seem to list endings, but the 'i' ending is standard for indicating that someone or something belongs to some place. |
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| + - | Re: booksearch (mind) | VÁLASZ | Feladó: | |||||
In reply to your message of "Tue, 15 Nov 94 15: 46:45 GMT."
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| + - | Re: booksearch (mind) | VÁLASZ | Feladó: | |||||
This brings up an interesting issue. Is there somewhere in cyberspace we can direct such inquiries to? Like a rare books serarcher Antiquarian, etc.? RWK On Tue, 15 Nov 1994, Eva Durant wrote: > I would like to ask for help to find the book > "This above all" published before the end of WW2, written > by Eric Knight of the "Lassie" -fame. I read it in my teens in > Hungarian "Legy hu magadhoz" and would like to check it out in > English, if it was really as good as I remember. So far I did > not find any trace of it in Manchester bookshops/libraries, it > does not appear as ever been published, but I did not look further, > it is much easier to ask your esteemed lot... > Thanks, |
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| + - | Re: Pataki (mind) | VÁLASZ | Feladó: | |||||
Tibor, > >Does anybody know the etimology of `Pataki'? > > > >Haldun > > 'patak' means 'creek' in hungarian, the 'i' (pronounce like y in > friendly) means 'from' or 'by' so 'Pataki' means the person who lives by > the creek. According to _A Magyar Nyelv Torteneti-Etimiologiai Szotara_ > (Etymological Dictionary of the Hungarian Language) [Akademiai Kiado, > Budapest 1976] 'patak' derives from old slavic 'potok' meaning 'muddy > depression' and means 'body of flowing water smaller then a river' and all > slavic languages except serbian have the word. I have heard that some > people dispute the reliability of this dictionary on the grounds that it > exagerates hungarian borrowing from slavic and other languages in order to > denigrate hungarian culture. In this view, the fact that serbian is > missing a derivative of 'potok' could indicate that the other slavic > languages borrowed it from hungarian. The dictionary doesn' seem to list > endings, but the 'i' ending is standard for indicating that someone or > something belongs to some place. Thank you very much for the explanation. I am not Arabic but there is an -i suffix in Arabic, which means `of' or `pertaining to'. Also, there is a loan word `patak' in Turkish from Greek but with a different meaning. That was why I wondered. Haldun |
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| + - | Re: Illegal Immigration (mind) | VÁLASZ | Feladó: | |||||
Batkay writes:
>> But the place to enforce that distinction is at the border, not
>>at the welfare office or the hospital door. In other words, if Charles or
>>anybody else is really disturbed by the presence of so many illegals among us
,
>>let them put pressure on our newly-elected representatives to enforce our
>>immigration laws by deporting illegal aliens.
Might be so. But the question, should we control illegal immigration or not.
If we should, an ineffective step is better than no step.
Not being an american, I do push for the underdog, but I cannot blame the
americans, for trying to control, what they consider a problem.
I certainly hope, that in hungary, we do, what ever is possible, to get
rid of illegal immigrants.
Sandor
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| + - | Re: booksearch (mind) | VÁLASZ | Feladó: | |||||
> This brings up an interesting issue. Is there somewhere in cyberspace we > can direct such inquiries to? Like a rare books serarcher Antiquarian, etc.? > > RWK If you have a Web viewer, you might start at http://akebono.stanford.edu/yahoo/Business/Corporations/Books/ --Greg |
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| + - | Re: Illegal Immigration (mind) | VÁLASZ | Feladó: | |||||
Date sent: 15-NOV-1994 15:01:47 I haven't been in Hungary for a few years, though last I was there, I believe there was a very liberal immigration policy. Has this changed? How has the situation in Yugoslavia affected this? I know that in the Czech Republic, there have been some problems with Russian illegal immigrants. Anything like that in Hungary? As for US immigration policies: my wife is an immigrant, legal of course, and I have had to deal extensively with INS. The organization is so disorganized, its a wonder that the US hasn't been more flooded with illegals than it already is. The idea that enforcement should be left solely in the hands of INS is suicide! Any law which is not enforced in the hearts of normal people will fail. I agree: the hospital door is not the place to turn against illegal immigrants. That task lies with employers. Most illegal immigrants are drawn to the US because of economics. If they were no jobs waiting for them, there'd be no problem. As for the idea that they fufill a societal need by working in lousy, low-paying jobs, an obvious answer would be an increase in the mininum wage. Maybe nobody wants to work these jobs because they pay at sub-poverty level. If the government would spend its time enforcing bans on illegal immigrant labor and by making those lousy jobs a source of a decent living, then we wouldn't have to support bulky, inneffective big government institutions like INS. Ted' ma zena ma hlad, tak musim jit. |
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| + - | 2nd EUROPEAN E CONFERENCE ON A&E: CALL FOR CONTRIBUTORS (mind) | VÁLASZ | Feladó: | |||||
Subj: 2nd Electronic EARLI-AE conference: CALL FOR CONTRIBUTORS
FIRST CALL for participation
2nd EUROPEAN ELECTRONIC CONFERENCE
ON ASSESSMENT AND EVALUATION:
RECENT AND FUTURE DEVELOPMENTS
**********************************************************************
EARLI European Association for Research into Learning and Instruction
SIG Assessment & Evaluation
**********************************************************************
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* EARLI-AE LIST February 6-7-8-9-10 1995 *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
#####################################################################
CALL FOR PAPERS / INVITED ADDRESSES
IF YOU HAVE A INTERESTING PAPER (A RESEARCH REPORT OR AN OPINION PAPER) ON
AN ACTUAL TOPIC IN THE AREA OF ASSESSMENT OR EVALUATION, WHICH WOULD FIT
FOR AN GOOD DISCUSSION AMONG SCHOLARS AND PRACTITIONERS, SEND IT BEFORE
DECEMBER 15 TO DRS. G. MOERKERKE AT GMOatOUH.NL
IF YOU KNOW ANY COLLEAGUES WHO COULD BE INVITED TO ENTER A SUBSTANTIVE
PAPER ON AN A&E TOPIC, PLEASE INFORM DR. F. DOCHY ON |
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| + - | Elections (US and Hungary) (mind) | VÁLASZ | Feladó: | |||||
Jeliko1 writes: > I presume that all who explained that the voters were doing the right stuff > in relation to the Hungarian elections are as elated with the US results as > they were with the Hungarian ones. The voter is always right, just as the customer is always right. There might be extraordinary cases when the voters don't get what they were promised to get, but in both elections the nature of the merchandise (reform-communists in one case, conservative Republicans in the other) was fully known in advance to the buyers, and they got exactly what they paid for (the coin of the realm being the votes cast). Just to keep the record straight, I never said I was "elated" with the results (an SZDSZ/Fidesz victory, which looked quite possible a year before the elections, would have been an entirely different matter) I just saw it coming. I was, in fact, quite unhappy to see the socialists winning, and the fact that their victory was so sweeping just makes it worse. Seeing the Hungarian voters punish the right-wing parties for their atrocious stupidity is very much like seeing the US voters doing same to the Democrats for the very same reason. Neither of these is what I want: I want a capable, intelligent right-wing party (or several) in Hungary, and I want a capable, intelligent Democratic party in the US. "You can't always get what you want." As for Prop 187, I see that Be1la saved me the trouble and made most of the points that need to be made, so'd just like to emphasize one in relation to Paul's posting: > Do you recognize any level of blood-sucking as intolerable? The problem is > not a few hundread or a few thousand illegals, and this only applied to > those here by virtue of having committing a crime, but rather hundreds of > thousands of illegals taking American jobs, commiting crimes, and taking > social benefits. These people contribute far more to the economy than they take away (the figures I've heard on PBS were 70 billion vs. 3 billion) so there is no bloodsucking. As for crimes, illegal immigration is a crime. Employing illegal immigrants is a felony. (And where is Mr. Huffington, Mr. Mandatory Sentencing, Mr. No Excuses On Any Crime, when it comes to taking his wife to jail?) Yet there is nothing that I see in the major ethical systems of the world, be they Judeo-Christian, Graeco-Roman, Confucian, or whatever, that says that these activities are immoral. Frankly, I don't think that it is immoral to migrate elsewhere in search of a better life and I don't see anything wrong with letting such migrants settle and accepting them in one's own society. > And yes they are taking jobs (I took the liberty of anticipating one of your > answers), since there are many Americans, including blacks and whites, who > work are working as farmhands, which demonstrates that Americans will take > those jobs, even at $2-3/hour. First of all it's generally untrue (Americans tend not to accept the kind of jobs that the immigrants accept) but even to the extent it is true, there is an implicit premise in your argumentation that a jobless Mexican is somehow better than a jobless American. To me, a person is a person, and his nationality, race, creed, etc. etc. make no difference. Is s/he a hard worker? That should be (and for the most part, that *is*) the primary consideration of every employer. > Is that a good thing, to help Mexican poor on the backs of Americans poor? I don't see American poor as better than the Mexican poor. There is this notion that all men are created equal. Spend some time pondering what this means. (Hint: it doesn't mean they are created equal in weight, height, strength, intelligence, or willingness to work.) There is another notion about life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Think about it. (Hint: does this mean that if you are born a Swiss citizen you are entitled to a longer lifespan, more liberty, and better means to pursue happiness than if you are born a Guatemalan citizen?) Contemplate the essential truth in these wonderful notions and the truth shall set you free. > I understand the concern and compassion which motivates you to want to > help the illegals, which is only a civilized reaction, but you are missing > the side of the equation which represents the costs of helping them > by letting them in illegally. We should promote investment in the poor > countries south of us, but it is econimic suicide to take in anyone who > wanrs to come - legal or not. For example, in California the have a > terrible problem of a shortage of water, which is a cronic problem. > The water for the southern part of the state comes from the north, > thru aqueducts, and there is not enough rainfall in California overall > to sustain the population they have. In Texas, and the entir middle part > of the US, they are near a catastrophy due to the water table falling. > The source of water for the central 1/3 of the US is an underground lake > called the Ogalala (spelling?) Aquafer. In the last 50 years it has dried > up by about 1/3 to 1/2. The only way they have maintained water output is by > digging deeper, but the water is not being replaced by nature as fast as it > is being used up. This not a matter of developing the technology to find > or 'create' water - there is a maximum nuber of people the land can support > and we are now, already, beyond that point. You mean you want to deny them *water*? Denying them social services is a stupid idea in the first place. When you deny them health care they will start carry infectious diseases. Bacteria and viruses are known to blatantly disregard INS permits and even citizenship status -- next thing you know it's not only them wetbacks but your precious Americans and legal aliens who suffer. When you deny schooling to the children of illegal aliens (who will not go back and don't even have a "back" to go back to) you are virtually guaranteeing that they will take up a criminal lifestyle the attendant social costs of which are far above and beyond the cost of schooling. On the costs of keeping a person in prison for one year you can teach 20 to read and write. It is true that there is an up-front cost to schooling (you need to teach the three r's when they are 6 or) while prison construction and maintenance costs are deferred (you can wait with the prison until they grow to be 14 or so) but it's still a tremendous investment in "kimu3velt emberfo3k sokasa1ga". Prop 187 is stupid even from the point of enlighted self-interest, but there is a limit where (un)enlightened selfishness must give way to basic humanitarian instinct. To deny them water? I can't believe I'm reading this. As you might know, 83% of California water consumption goes to agriculture, in effect a large subsidy to the rice-growers and such in So-Cal. One would think that finding a less water-intensive crop for what are naturally desert lands is not such a terrible price to pay for giving people a drink. Please don't tell me the US can't support a larger population -- compare with population density in places like the Netherlands. > There is more to the issue of illegals than selfish people not wanting > to share the wealth, although the the social and cultural issues > resulting from these recent arrivals also have not been properly addressed. > For example, what about those who do not come, but are just as poor as those > who do? Are they not diserving of help? Would you ignore them simply > since they have not placed themselves on you doorstep? The answer is > environmentally and socially responsible development in the poor countries, > and not the milking dry of the US. Well, God helps those who help themselves. Certainly coming here and thereby putting oneself in a position where a decent living can be earned by honest toil is a good start toward bettering one's station in life. Most of these people (and just try to keep this in mind, Paul, they are people too!) don't come to beg. They come to work, and they work hard. Andra1s Kornai PS. Just to give this matter a Hungarian twist, it is well known that Hungary has seen a tremendous surge of immigration in the past five years, and that a great deal of wealth is created by the immigrants. It is hard to find a Hungarian farmer who doesn't employ illegal workers, and most homes are built by construction workers who have neither citizenship nor work permits. There is a restrictive immigration law in place (with special breaks to ethnic Hungarians, probably a bad thing for those who consider preservation of the Hungarian character of Transylvania etc. paramount) but enforcement is selective. As usual, the anti-immigrant feelings are strongest among the white trash, who see (quite correctly) that the immigrants have completely changed the workpace e.g. in the construction industry and in seasonal jobs. But the brunt of actual job competition is borne by the Gypsies (you need to have the lamp of Diogenes to find an employer who would give a job to a Gypsy in preference to an ethnic Hungarian from Transylvania or elsewhere) whose say in the matter is nil. |
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| + - | Re: Illegal Immigration (mind) | VÁLASZ | Feladó: | |||||
Re: Illegal Immigration, BREEDT wrote to recommend increasing the minimum wage and refusing employment to illegal immigrants, as a way of attracting U.S. to the jobs now being taken by illegals. One major problem--the imposition of minimum wages, in the view of many economists, generally results in a *decrease* in the number of jobs, since many are not cost-effective at the minimum wage. Thus the appeal of illegal immigrants, who *are* cost effective. To those who argue against this on grounds of general humanity, remember that when the "system" works, people move out of low-paying, unpleasant jobs when they acquire skills, experience, etc., and their places are taken by *other* people. This may be neither fair nor humane, but no has devised a better system than the market for getting the work done *and* benefitting the society as a whole. So again I would say that illegal immigrants are attracted here by the prospect of jobs that simply would not exist or would not be performed if there were no illegal immigrants in the first place. And American (as well as German, Swiss, Austrian, French, Swedish, etc.) societies have evidently decided that those jobs are useful, even necessary, and that illegal immigrants are the ones to do them. And this applies to American agriculture, as well--the *bracero* program was all very well, but it never provided a sufficient number of agricultural workers to get all the work done, hence the wide and continuing reliance on illegal immigrants. Raise the minimum wage, round up and deport illegals, and I would venture to say that the rest of us would simply have a smaller, and more expensive, choice of foodstuffs, as in, say, Hungary, Austria, etc., etc. Are we seriously willing to put up with that? Be1la |
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| + - | Re: Elections (US and Hungary) (mind) | VÁLASZ | Feladó: | |||||
Andras Kornai was too kind in his passing mention of my earlier remarks-- in fact it is *he* who made all the arguments that I wished I had made, and he made them more trenchantly and powerfully. His Hungarian example is particularly apt, and demonsrates, IMHO, exactly how far Hungary is ap- proaching West European norms, a desirable outcome in the view of most of us. And, yes, there are some genuine victims of the process--Roma in Hungary, *some* poor African-Americans in ours, but there are any number of ways to assist such victims other than increasing the quota of human misery by taking the proposed actions against illegals, either here or in Hungary. Again my thanks to and praise of Andras. E1ljen!!!! Udv., Be1la |
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| + - | Re: Pataki (mind) | VÁLASZ | Feladó: | |||||
Haldun writes: > Thank you very much for the explanation. I am not Arabic but there is an -i > suffix in Arabic, which means `of' or `pertaining to'. Also, there is a loan > word `patak' in Turkish from Greek but with a different meaning. That was why I > wondered. Interestingly, the "-i" suffix does exists in Slavic languages as well, meaning the same thing as in Hungarian. For instance, the Polish equivalent of "Pataki" would be "Potocki". I suspect that the Persian language might also use something like that. Isn't Andre Agassi's background Iranian? Perhaps that "i" ending in his name serves the same role as the i in Pataki's. If my hunch is right, we might be dealing here with something the Hungarians picked up way back, during their proto-history. But again, where are our linguists here to set the record straight? Regards, Joe |
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| + - | Re: Illegal Immigration (mind) | VÁLASZ | Feladó: | |||||
> Most illegal immigrants are > drawn to the US because of economics. If they were no jobs waiting for > them, there'd be no problem. And many of those jobs, I suspect, are actually offered by Mexican-American businesses, especially restaurants. I often patronize them and I always wonder about the status of all those Mexicans working at these places and speaking virtually no English. I would be willing to bet that those employees get paid less than minimum wages in exchange of getting those jobs as illegals. Both the restaurant, and the employees are happy that way. Ever wonder how come those Mexican restaurants can undercut most others with their prices? Joe |
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