To all:

Many months ago we had some discussion regarding the cuisine of Hungary and
requests for some recipies were shared.

For those of you, who are unable to find Hungarian cookbooks written in
English; I do believe that I've discovered a treasure to behold - right
amongst us.  Eva Kende's Hungarian Kitchen has recently arrived and has
quickly become a treasured addition to my collection.  For anyone, looking
for a great hungarian cookbook written in English, while recipies are also
identified in Hungarian (with a Hungarian index to boot) I highly recommend
it!  Enough so, that I have already requested additional copies for gifts.

Regards, Aniko
PS:  No, I am not being a paid a commission, nor is this an advertisement.
Just thought I'd share the find with you all.  If you're reading this Eva K
- my sincere congrats!  You did a wonderful job!  It's a great cookbook!

 on Feb 16 06:26:39 EST 1997 in HUNGARY #916:

>Yes, and notice how you don't dare re-open the debate on the point we were
>discussing about Ban Jelacic. I guess it's a case of who you gonna believe,
Sue
>Ellen -- good, old J.R. or your own two lyin' eyes?

Well, if you insist, Samu, let's continue.  So how was it with your "South
Serb leader" Jelacic?  I guess everyone on this list is dying to hear your
latest theory on this most original, so far unknown piece of history.

Now, remember, no insults, if you don't mind.  Just the facts, OK?

Ne marakodjatok (gyulolkodjetek?) mar olyan hangosan (ez
tobbeknek szol ezen a listan). Ugrassatok egymast,
javitsatok egymast, tanitsatok egymast. Ha piszkot akarok
olvasni, akkor a MOKAra megyek.
Jol esett figyelmed, Istvan. Balogh Eva nem biztos, hogy
eszrevette, hogy mennyire sutaul hallatszik amit mond.
Fiatal, talan elvesztette a hallasat, avagy ki sem
fejleszthette egy amerikanizalt, es ugyancsak
elszlavosodott, aszfaltjaro nyelv-kornyezetben. Ket- harom,
es meg tobb, generacioval oelotte germanizmus tette sukette
a fuleket a magyar nyelv finomsagaira.
S ha mar a nyelvrol van szo, mindenkinek a ket listan
ajanlom, hogy ussek fel:
http://umann.hu.net/dalok/Kala1ka/song_Bicskei_e1nek.html
karacsony elott talaltam, s azota mar tobbszor visszamentem
ujra es ujra elolvasni. A tobb tucatnyi dzsingo (?) kozott
nem talalsz egyet sem, amely koltoisegben, nyelvi
szepsegeben vetekedhet ezzel a paranyi dallal, amit az osi
dallam meg kedvesebbe es naivabba tesz.
Remelem, ezt a lelkiseget megtartjatok Karacsonytol
Karacsonyig.
Udvozollek: Dominus

Ne gyulolkodjetek mar olyan hangosan (ez tobbeknek szol ezen
a listan). Ugrassatok egymast, javitsatok egymast. Ha
piszkot akarok olvasni, akkor a MOKAra megyek.
Jol esett figyelmed, Istvan. Balogh Eva nem biztos, hogy
eszrevette, hogy mennyire sutaul hallatszik amit mond.
Fiatal, talan elvesztette a hallasat, avagy ki sem
fejleszthette egy amerikanizalt, es ugyancsak
elszlavosodott, kornyezetben. Ket- harom, es meg tobb,
generacioval oelotte germanizmus tette sukette a fuleket a
magyar nyelv finomsagaira.
S ha mar a nyelvrol van szo, mindenkinek a ket listan
ajanlom, hogy ussek fel:
http://umann.hu.net/dalok/Kala1ka/song_Bicskei_e1nek.html
karacsony elott talaltam, s azota mar tobbszor visszamentem
ujra es ujra elolvasni. A tobb tucatnyi dzsingo (?) kozott
nem talalsz egyet sem amely nyelvi szepsegeben vetekedhet
ezzel a paranyi dallal, amit az osi dallam meg kedvesebbe es
naivabba tesz.
Remelem, ezt a lelkiseget megtartjatok Karacsonytol
Karacsonyig.
Udvozollek: Dominus


"Istvan Lippai" > wrote:

>Kedves Dominus,
>     Balogh hivatkozasat a 'fatherland'-re en is eszrevettem.  A nemetek
>hasznaljak a 'fatherland'-t hazajukkal kapcsolatban.  Magyarok kifejezese
>'anyanyelv' es 'szulofold'.  Az 'anya', magyaroknak a szeretetet kepviseli,
>ebbol is latszik, hogy a magyar hagyomany es magyar kulture szeretetre es
>nem a masok gyuloletere va alapitva.  Sajnos a HUNGARY listan vannak olyan
>magyar gyulolok, akik szeretnek mindent kiforgatni.
>    Termesztessen, ezt a Balogh is tudja, de az o sunyi modjan probalt a
>'nazi' 'fasiszta' 'nacionalista' ecsetevel bemazolni.  Most, biztos azert
>nem hasznalta ezeket a kifejezeseket, mert gondolta, hogy visszavagtam
>volna.
>    Elhataroztam, hogy barmilyen gyenge is a magyar irasom, tovabbra is
>magyarul fogok irni.  A tanulmanyaimmal kapcsolatban eleget irok angolul.
>Ez az oreg kutya meg mindeg tud tanulni egy-ket uj dolgot.  Ki tudja, addig
>javitgat a Monoki elvatrs amig megtanulok.
>Udv: Istvan

>> Eva, Eva, Eva,...
>> In Hungarian it's motherland. -- Anyaorszag, anyafold.
>

In article >, Janos
Zsargo > writes:

>If someone  writes down that 'Jelacic was the leader of the south serbs' than
>he has no clue what he is talking about. I guess Sam would be better off if
>he did not force the reopening of that debate.
>
>
>J.Zs
>
>

Anytime you feel froggy, Janos, just jump in the pond. I'm more than happy to
reopen the debate on the events of 1848-49, with you or anyone else. It'll give
you the chance to parade your ignorance one more time for everyone to see.
Sam Stowe

"Nasal phlegm. Some guys may think it's
funny, Mr. Noir, but it's not."
-- The bartender in Guy Noir's office building

In article >, "Andrew J.
Rozsa" > writes:

>>[....]
>>It's called "cognitive dissonance" and it always arises when performance
>>diverges radically from premise. I would have guessed that the very concept
>>of cognitive dissonance had been tattooed into the Hungarian soul by the
>>period 1945-1989.
>>
>
>OK, Sam, since you let the cat outta box, you need to finish the thought:
>how DOES one resolve cognitive dissonance? Isn't that the gist of your
>(implied) message?
>
>Bandi

Now that I've sent the Zen answer, let me try it again in a less concise and
witty manner. If I recall my meager formal education in psychology -- one
general survey course in undergraduate school, one graduate course in social
psychology and one year spent working in a bar -- cognitive dissonance is
resolved by altering one's beliefs, behavior or environment. Did I even come
close, doc?
Sam Stowe

"Nasal phlegm. Some guys may think it's
funny, Mr. Noir, but it's not."
-- The bartender in Guy Noir's office building

In article >,  says...
>
>I was wondering if anybody can tell me the names of the seven chiefs
>that came with Arpad? Also, is there any way of knowing which tribe
>you are descended from?
>
>                        -Istvan Varga
>
Arpad, Elod, Kond, Ond, Tass, Huba, Tohotom.


Agnes

In article >, "Andrew J.
Rozsa" > writes:

>OK, Sam, since you let the cat outta box, you need to finish the thought:
>how DOES one resolve cognitive dissonance? Isn't that the gist of your
>(implied) message?
>
>Bandi

Skin the cat.
Sam Stowe

"Nasal phlegm. Some guys may think it's
funny, Mr. Noir, but it's not."
-- The bartender in Guy Noir's office building

At 01:55 18-02-1997 GMT, you wrote:
>In article >,  says...
>>
>>I was wondering if anybody can tell me the names of the seven chiefs
>>that came with Arpad? Also, is there any way of knowing which tribe
>>you are descended from?
>>
>>                        -Istvan Varga
>>
>Arpad, Elod, Kond, Ond, Tass, Huba, Tohotom.
>
>
>Agnes

Unless you connect to a noble branch of some family which is also a very old
noble branch, you will never be able to trace anything back that far.

I suggest you contact a library (or visit your local LDS Mormon library to
order film copies) to look at two major works on Hungarian nobility by these
two authors:

NAGY Ivan
KEMPELEN Bela

Each one is good, but Kempelen is better, in my opinion. If your lines are
from Erdely, you might be lucky and find more. I know of one book on the
Haromszek varmegye nobility which I found in the National Library in
Budapest. Others exist.

The next issue of my newsletter has one article which covers some basic
concepts of nobility research in Hungary. It'll be out in the latter part of
this month or early March.

Good luck,

Doug Holmes

   ================================================================
Doug da Rocha Holmes            | Doug Holmes - Director
------------------------------- | Hungarian/American Friendship Society
Specialist in Azorean Genealogy | Website: www.dholmes.com/hafs.html
Website: www.dholmes.com        | (Specializing in Hungarian & Slovak genealogy
)
   ================================================================

Kedves Karoly!

At 11:39 17/02/97 -0600, you wrote, in response to Gabor Fencsik:
<snipped Gabor's comments>
>
>I think it is appropriate to address concerns to judges, who value input and
>information on topics they are asked to review.  Of course, for this to be
>effective, it must be done in a civilized manner, and it must convey real
>information, not just political hyperbole.
>
But there is a mechanism set up for allowing such inputs in a controlled
manner in a court action - and that is by allowing *intervenors,* which is
what the environmental groups that Peter Orban referred to appear to be. I
don't see any legitimate purpose to be served by individuals sending
letters to the judges telling them how they should make their decision. I am
serious that these letters are only likely to at best be disposed of in the
circular file and at worst result in a backlash against the Hungarian or the
environmentalist sides.

>As far as protesting a miscarriage of justice *after* the verdict, of course
>it is a right, but no more than expressing opinion before the verdict. It's
>pretty much useless, though... The proper protest is an appeal to a higher
>court, hoping to reverse the verdict.

Yes, exactly so. And the same thing applies to pressuring the court at the
trial level. There is a proper way to have input. In addition, I would
encourage people to send letters to newspapers and the other media and to
the various governments involved. These are legitimate avenues to be
followed to bring the views of the Hungarian Lobby in this case to the
attention of the public and the powers that be.
>
>As far as an independent judiciary is concerned, their independence may be
>assured by lifetime appointments, adequate pay, etc.  Being independent does
>not mean they are insulated from life and that their judgements can not be
>swayed by the power of argument and fact.  Indeed, adversarial arguments pro
>and con are the basis of the judicial process.

Yes, but again, I cannnot emphasize strongly enough that the adversarial
arguments are allowed in a formal way, through decisions which determine
which are the legitimate parties to a case. Only they and the intervenors I
mentioned are allowed to make those arguments. Let them make them! As I
said, the Hungarian Lobby has a legitimate role to perform in contacting the
media and governmental officials and elected politicians. But the judges
should be left alone!
>
>Charlie Vamossy

Tisztelettel,

Johanne/Janka
Johanne L. Tournier
e-mail - 

looking back thru my old english/hungarian cookbooks i found Susan Derecskey's
"Hungarian Cookbook" (Harper, 1972 87-ed 0060914378) likewise a great book!
yes, i wanna see Kende's book.. any isbn would be appreciated...

btw: anyone got a good basic recipe for tepertu" so i can make poga'csa?
i admit that's one thing i've never been successful with...

my past successes have included
mada'r tely, szilva's gomboc, rakot ka'poszta, lecso, lebencs leves
and my favorites, bor s megy leves... (god i miss my mom's cooking)

janos


Aniko Dunford ) wrote:
: To all:

: Many months ago we had some discussion regarding the cuisine of Hungary and
: requests for some recipies were shared.

: For those of you, who are unable to find Hungarian cookbooks written in
: English; I do believe that I've discovered a treasure to behold - right
: amongst us.  Eva Kende's Hungarian Kitchen has recently arrived and has
: quickly become a treasured addition to my collection.  For anyone, looking
: for a great hungarian cookbook written in English, while recipies are also
: identified in Hungarian (with a Hungarian index to boot) I highly recommend
: it!  Enough so, that I have already requested additional copies for gifts.

: Regards, Aniko
: PS:  No, I am not being a paid a commission, nor is this an advertisement.
: Just thought I'd share the find with you all.  If you're reading this Eva K
: - my sincere congrats!  You did a wonderful job!  It's a great cookbook!

--

I am writing from Australia where I have lived for the last 47 years. In =
the Australian federal and state political system, originally taken from =
the English Westminister system, parliamentary investigative committees =
did not play a prominent part. In the last 20 or so years they have =
assumed greater prominence. Just the same, being called before such a =
committee is considered a very serious matter and refusal to answer is =
considered contempt of Parliament punishable as parliament, constituting =
itself as a court, sees fit, There have been several notable instances =
over the years where journalists have refused to reveal their sources, =
usually leaks within the public service or from parliamentarians and/or =
their staffs, and they have been jailed over this matter. This is still =
considered a delicate subject in so far as journalists insist that their =
sources are private and the government of the day wants to root out =
leaks which would embarrass it.
Regards
D=E9nes





----------
From:  Eva S. Balogh[SMTP:]
Sent:  Tuesday, 18 February 1997 11:12
To:  Multiple recipients of list HUNGARY
Subject:  Parliamentary committees

        In connection with the Tocsik affair (by now everybody ought to =
know
what that is) a parliamentary investigative committee has been calling =
in
people who are supposed to be involved in the affair. One after the =
other
either doesn't show up or if they do, they make a prepared statement and
leave the room, refusing to answer the questions from the members of the
committee consisting of representatives of all the parties represented =
in
parliament.

        Although I am not a student of the American congress I have =
never
heard of people called upon a congressional committee not to show up! Or =
to
refuse to answer questions. However, I have a vague recollections that =
if
someone refuses to show up or to answer questions he/she is in contempt =
of
congress. And that is punishable by a jail sentence.

        I would appreciate some input on this topic. I would be, for
example, very curious about what the situation is in Germany. (Yes, =
Miklos,
I am hoping to hear from you.) I am equally interested in hearing from =
our
Canadian friends about the Canadian situation. (Yes, Johanna, I mean =
you.)
And Sam, who, I bet, knows what the situation is in the United States.

        And finally. I think that there ought to be some law which =
forbids
these characters to defy parliament. What do you think?

        Eva Balogh

Kedves Listat=E1rsak!
Kar=E1csony el=F6tt =F3ta k=F6vetem ezt a list=E1t =E9s l=E1tom hogy =
t=F6bben lekicsinylik eggyesek magyar helyes=EDr=E1s=E1nak =E9s =
st=EDlus=E1nak esetleges szeg=E9nys=E9g=E9t =E9s el=E9gtelens=E9g=E9t.
1945-ben 5 =E9ves koromban hagytam el szeretett haz=E1mat, =EDgy nem =
j=E1rtam, nem is j=E1rhattam magyarnyelv=FC iskol=E1ba. Ez nem jelenti =
azt hogy magyarvonatkoz=E1su dolgok, t=F6rt=E9nelem, n=E9prajz,r=E9gebbi =
=E9s mi magyar politika stb., nem =E9rdekel =E9s nincs ahoz =
hozz=E1szolnival=F3m =E9s hozz=E1szolni val=F3 jogom, m=E9gha azt =
esetleg nem a legkiv=E1l=F3bb magyar helyes=EDr=E1ssal teszem.=20
Ez=E9rt k=E9rem legyenek eln=E9z=F6ek =E9s halgassanak meg. =C9p=FCletes =
kritik=E1t elfogadok de k=E9rem ne b=EDr=E1lj=E1k a mondanival=F3mat =
esetleges stilisztikai vagy helyes=EDr=E1si hi=E1nyoss=E1gok alapjan.

Maradok igaz tisztelettel
Bogs=E1nyi D=E9nes=20

Eva Balogh wrote :
<        In connection with the Tocsik affair (by now everybody ought to know
<what that is) a parliamentary investigative committee has been calling in
<people who are supposed to be involved in the affair. One after the other
<either doesn't show up or if they do, they make a prepared statement and
<leave the room, refusing to answer the questions from the members of the
<committee consisting of representatives of all the parties represented in
<parliament.

<        Although I am not a student of the American congress I have never
<heard of people called upon a congressional committee not to show up! Or to
<refuse to answer questions. However, I have a vague recollections that if
<someone refuses to show up or to answer questions he/she is in contempt of
<congress. And that is punishable by a jail sentence.

<        I would appreciate some input on this topic. I would be, for
<example, very curious about what the situation is in Germany. (Yes, Miklos,
<I am hoping to hear from you.) I am equally interested in hearing from our
<Canadian friends about the Canadian situation. (Yes, Johanna, I mean you.)
<And Sam, who, I bet, knows what the situation is in the United States.

<        And finally. I think that there ought to be some law which forbids
<these characters to defy parliament. What do you think?

<        Eva Balogh

Aye, aye, Madame! :-)

Hello Eva,

its a good question! Reading the daily Hungarian ( mostly Magyar
Nemzet, Nepszabadsag, Magyar Hirlap ), one is stunned about the
attitude of the MPs of the governing parties when coping with par-
lamentary committees.

They show up or don4t, according to their convenience. They declare, the
commission is no longer necessary, the PM already took the necessary
measures, the prosecutor and the police were investigating and IT4S NO
BUSINESS OF A PARLAMENTARY COMMISSION TO CONSIDER THE QUESTION OF POLI-
TICAL RESPONSIBILTY. It is the job of MSzP to investigate MSzP4s - and
MSzP leaders4 - political responsibility.

The discussion is demonstrating a breathtaking lack of respect for
constitutional order / joga4llami4sa4g. I am not sure whether the Hun-
garian Parliament ever cared - or managed - to legislate on these issues.

In Germany :
According to Art. 44 of the Grundgesetz ( GG, German Constitution ),
the Bundestag ( House of Representatives ) is entiteled - and liable
on request of at least 1/4 of the members - to set up an Untersuchungs-
ausschuss ( a fact finding committee, a committee of inquiry ). The
committee is entiteled to qestion, to subpoena witnesses and experts
and to request courts and authorities to carry out investigations on
its behalf. You may envoke, however the equivalent to Amandment V
( ..nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be witness against
himself,...) if parallely there is a court case running.

There are similar "facilties" at state level, details depending on the
constitution of the individual states.

In Germany I cannot remeber situations like the ones observed in Hun-
gary. I think, both the public opinion and the published opinion would
have torn the deliquents in pieces...so nobody dared.

The outcome, however, is sometimes two different partisan reports.

Kind regards

Miklos

Eva Balogh wrote :
<Unfortunately I can't fine the exchange between Janos Zsargo and
<myself about the size of the Hungarian left. I mentioned the size of the
<Hungarian left as twenty percent but, as I admitted later, I was only
<guessing. I was guessing on the basis of a public opinion poll on people's
<attitude toward the Hungarian revolution of 1956. I didn't have hard data.
<Janos Zsargo questioned this figure, saying that I must be joking. Surely,
<the left is miniscule in Hungary. Nothing like twenty percent of the
<electorate. In answer, I admitted that it was simply a guess on my part.

<        Well, I am reading some Hungarian papers (very behind, by the way)
<and what do I see but an article which contains proof that I wasn't terribly
<off in my guess on the size of the left. I just finished an interview with
<Ferenc Gazso, a sociologist, in *168 ora* (January 21, 1997, pp. 8-9) in
<which I found the following: "De ha eltavolodunk egy kicsit e hezitalo
<retegtol, lathatjuk: a partok korul idovel stabil szavazoreteg alakul ki.
<Ilyen peldaul az MSZP baloldali szavazobazisa (a valasztok huszonot
<szazaleka.)" [But if we move away a bit from the undecided group [of voters]
<we can see that eventually a stabil electoral basis develops around parties.
<Such is, for example, the left-wing voting basis of the MSZP, twenty-five
<percent of the voters.]

<        Thus, my guess concerning the twenty percent of the leftist vote was
<actually a bit too low. If twenty-five percent of the voters (which
<constitutes the left around the MSZP) is considered leftist and if we add
<the close to five percent which voted for the Munkaspart then my guess was
<actually a bit too low. We may speak of thirty percent of the electorate. I
<wouldn't be surprised about that figure at all.

<       Eva Balogh

The problem is the definition of left or not left...
I am not sure whether I would define SzDSz as middle,
or, mind you, right.
And if you watch e.g. statements of exponents of KDNP,
but other opposition parties, as well, about privatiza-
tion and foreign capital, you think you are listening
to the Munkaspart...

Miklos

At 12:46 PM 2/18/97 +0100,Miklos Hoffman wrote:
>
><        Thus, my guess concerning the twenty percent of the leftist vote was
><actually a bit too low. If twenty-five percent of the voters (which
><constitutes the left around the MSZP) is considered leftist and if we add
><the close to five percent which voted for the Munkaspart then my guess was
><actually a bit too low. We may speak of thirty percent of the electorate. I
><wouldn't be surprised about that figure at all.
>
><       Eva Balogh
>
>The problem is the definition of left or not left...
>I am not sure whether I would define SzDSz as middle,
>or, mind you, right.
>And if you watch e.g. statements of exponents of KDNP,
>but other opposition parties, as well, about privatiza-
>tion and foreign capital, you think you are listening
>to the Munkaspart...
>
>Miklos
>
>

True, but I don't think there is any controversy about the MSzP:  it is a
party of the left.  Thus Eva's point is valid.

Charlie Vamossy

At 05:47 PM 2/18/97 +1100, you wrote:
>Kedves Listat=E1rsak!
>Kar=E1csony el=F6tt =F3ta k=F6vetem ezt a list=E1t =E9s l=E1tom hogy t=F6bb=
en lekicsinylik
eggyesek magyar helyes=EDr=E1s=E1nak =E9s st=EDlus=E1nak esetleges=
 szeg=E9nys=E9g=E9t =E9s
el=E9gtelens=E9g=E9t.
>1945-ben 5 =E9ves koromban hagytam el szeretett haz=E1mat, =EDgy nem=
 j=E1rtam, nem
is j=E1rhattam magyarnyelv=FC iskol=E1ba. Ez nem jelenti azt hogy
magyarvonatkoz=E1su dolgok, t=F6rt=E9nelem, n=E9prajz,r=E9gebbi =E9s mi=
 magyar politika
stb., nem =E9rdekel =E9s nincs ahoz hozz=E1szolnival=F3m =E9s hozz=E1szolni=
 val=F3 jogom,
m=E9gha azt esetleg nem a legkiv=E1l=F3bb magyar helyes=EDr=E1ssal teszem.=
=20
>Ez=E9rt k=E9rem legyenek eln=E9z=F6ek =E9s halgassanak meg. =C9p=FCletes=
 kritik=E1t
elfogadok de k=E9rem ne b=EDr=E1lj=E1k a mondanival=F3mat esetleges=
 stilisztikai vagy
helyes=EDr=E1si hi=E1nyoss=E1gok alapjan.
>
>Maradok igaz tisztelettel
>Bogs=E1nyi D=E9nes=20
>
>

Denes irasahoz en is es gondolom sokan masok is csatlakoznak.  En 15 eves
voltam amikor utoljara magyar iskolaban tanultam.

Vamossy Karcsi

Aniko Dunford wrote:
<To all:

<Many months ago we had some discussion regarding the cuisine of Hungary and
<requests for some recipies were shared.

<For those of you, who are unable to find Hungarian cookbooks written in
<English; I do believe that I've discovered a treasure to behold - right
<amongst us.  Eva Kende's Hungarian Kitchen has recently arrived and has
<quickly become a treasured addition to my collection.  For anyone, looking
<for a great hungarian cookbook written in English, while recipies are also
<identified in Hungarian (with a Hungarian index to boot) I highly recommend
<it!  Enough so, that I have already requested additional copies for gifts.

<Regards, Aniko
<PS:  No, I am not being a paid a commission, nor is this an advertisement.
<Just thought I'd share the find with you all.  If you're reading this Eva K
<- my sincere congrats!  You did a wonderful job!  It's a great cookbook!

Look up //www.kinga.com/hungary.htm with a lot of references. A button with
Cookbook ( or the like ) will bring you to //www.kinga.com/cook.htlm with
4 recepies : bableves, rakott krumpli ( burgonya? ), toltott kaposzta &
palacsinta - and an email link.

MKH
will /

****************** CALL FOR ACTION ****************

Priority:
  Normal

Background:
   The International Court of Justice has elected a new President,
Stephen Schwebel, professor of law at The Johns Hopkins University in
America.  Since the new President probably does not know the details
about the upcoming Danube lawsuit yet, it is important that we inform
him.  It is likely that the new President would be receptive to a
letter campaign.
   We have to convince President Schwebel about the Compromise
Plan proposed by Bela Liptak and environmental organizations. This
plan ensures the survival of the Danube Wetlands.

What to do:
   Please send a letter to the new President of the World Court,
Stephen Schwebel.  Ask him to rule in favor of the environment; that
is, to consider the Compromise Plan.  Feel free to use the sample
letter below.  Unfortunately we do not have the e-mail address. Please
do not hesitate to send him a fax.  EVERY FAX IS IMPORTANT!!! PLEASE
ACT!! ASK YOUR FRIENDS TO JOIN YOUR REQUEST!!
   Fax from US:  011-31-70-3649-928
   Fax from Europe:  0031-70-3649-928

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<date>

The Honorable Stephen Schwebel
President of the International Court of Justice
Carnegieplein 2, 2517 KJ,
Den Haag
The Netherlands
FAX:  011-31-70-3649-928

Dear Mr. President:

Congratulations on your well-deserved appointment as the new
President of the International Court of Justice.  Your professional
background is sure to further increase the reputation of the Court.

This month, for the first time in history, your Court will decide on
an environmental lawsuit which affects all humankind.  In ruling on
the future of the Danube in the dispute between Hungary and Slovakia,
you and your fellow judges can set a precedent by ruling that rivers,
forests, and oceans are not the sole properties of nations, that
nations do not have the right to destroy unique ecosystems.

The ecosystem of the Szigetkoz is dying due to the tragic drop in
groundwater level which is caused by the rerouting of the Danube. This
region, which was the oxygen supply of the Danube, has been destroyed
because the lung of the river (the wetland region) has been cut out.
Shipping on the Danube has suffered because of flimsy construction and
because the dam is not designed to handle ice.  Most importantly, the
population of the region is in physical danger and two-thirds of the
populations of Dobrohost, Vojka and Bodiky have already fled.

The Foundation to Protect the Hungarian Environment has submitted to
the Court a Compromise Plan to return the Danube into its natural
riverbed.  I hope and trust that the Court will save the ecosystem of
the Szigetkoz by giving this Compromise Plan serious consideration as
it makes its historic ruling.

Respectfully,

<name, title, address>

In article >,  writes:

>Mr. Stowe:
>
>Contrary to your reference of my power, please be assured that I am
>quite comfortable with the level I behold.  Your thirst however,
>appears to be unquenched.  What a sad state of affairs a man has to be
>in to test his self proclaimed superiority with the exercise of
>consistent criticism of ALL who choose not to ignore him on
>alt.listserv.hungary.  Perhaps such a man should run for office in
>some small banana republic where he could acquire the status of "GOD".

Monkey lad, either grow a pair of testicles and use your real name or forget me
answering your trolls after this. There are already enough putzes out there
with inflated opinions of themselves who at least have the decency to stand by
what they post. Besides, you're banal. It's a case of monkey see, monkey unable
to do with any degree of fidelity.

>
>By the way Sir, I suspect you also employ an alias here, otherwise we
>would have read you in TIMEor Newsweek, unless you are employed by one
>of the supermarket tabloids?

I have a web page somewhere on AOL. Access it. Read all my deepest, darkest
secrets. Then reflect on the fact that you are a conspiracy-minded yard ape who
sounds a lot like Mark O.F.
Sam Stowe

>
>
>
>



"Avalanche or roadblock?
I was a snowball in hell..."
-- They Might Be Giants

Alan Freeman writes ("Fast track to market economy dividing Hungary", The
Globe and Mail, Febr. 17, 1997):

In Hungary: "Real wages have dropped 17 per cent during the past two years,
inflation remains high and economic growth at a crawl."

Then quotes Attila Agh, a political scientist at Budapest's University of
Economy: "Hungarians are ill-famed for their pessimism and their too high
expectations."

Very funny.

Barna Bozoki

An extremely worthwhile project.  As someone who has addressed the 
issue of collective rights (in and out of government), however, I would 
be most interested in the basis for the statement:  “we stand a good 
chance that American support for COLLECTIVE HUMAN RIGHTS will become an 
integral part of American foreign policy.”

Unfortunately, the contrary is the case as the foreign policy 
establishment, including the White House, State Department and the 
Helsinki Commission, unequivocally rejects the concept of collective or 
group rights.  The relevant Congressional committees and subcommittees 
are not even involved in the debate.  Moreover, I am not certain I 
understand the term “collective human rights.”  It would be more 
precise to speak in terms of  collective or group rights or even 
minority rights.  May I refer the readership to the article I 
co-authored with Csaba K. Zoltani, “Group Rights Defuse Tensions,” The 
Fletcher Forum of World Affairs, Summer/Fall l996.

I do not write to discourage. The initiative to educate and involve 
others in the task of urging Washington to modify its views on this 
timely issue is commendable. Rather, I believe that an efficacious 
lobbying effort requires rigorous analysis of the why’s and wherefore’s 
of policy formulation, a realistic appraisal of actual policies and an 
appropriate strategy to respond to the same.

****************** CALL FOR ACTION ****************

Priority:
  Normal

Background:
   The International Court of Justice has elected a new President,
Stephen Schwebel, professor of law at The Johns Hopkins University in
America.  Since the new President probably does not know the details
about the upcoming Danube lawsuit yet, it is important that we inform
him.  It is likely that the new President would be receptive to a
letter campaign.
   We have to convince President Schwebel about the Compromise
Plan proposed by Bela Liptak and environmental organizations. This
plan ensures the survival of the Danube Wetlands.

What to do:
   Please send a letter to the new President of the World Court,
Stephen Schwebel.  Ask him to rule in favor of the environment; that
is, to consider the Compromise Plan.  Feel free to use the sample
letter below.  Unfortunately we do not have the e-mail address. Please
do not hesitate to send him a fax.  EVERY FAX IS IMPORTANT!!! PLEASE
ACT!! ASK YOUR FRIENDS TO JOIN YOUR REQUEST!!
   Fax from US:  011-31-70-3649-928
   Fax from Europe:  0031-70-3649-928

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<date>

The Honorable Stephen Schwebel
President of the International Court of Justice
Carnegieplein 2, 2517 KJ,
Den Haag
The Netherlands
FAX:  011-31-70-3649-928

Dear Mr. President:

Congratulations on your well-deserved appointment as the new
President of the International Court of Justice.  Your professional
background is sure to further increase the reputation of the Court.

This month, for the first time in history, your Court will decide on
an environmental lawsuit which affects all humankind.  In ruling on
the future of the Danube in the dispute between Hungary and Slovakia,
you and your fellow judges can set a precedent by ruling that rivers,
forests, and oceans are not the sole properties of nations, that
nations do not have the right to destroy unique ecosystems.

The ecosystem of the Szigetkoz is dying due to the tragic drop in
groundwater level which is caused by the rerouting of the Danube. This
region, which was the oxygen supply of the Danube, has been destroyed
because the lung of the river (the wetland region) has been cut out.
Shipping on the Danube has suffered because of flimsy construction and
because the dam is not designed to handle ice.  Most importantly, the
population of the region is in physical danger and two-thirds of the
populations of Dobrohost, Vojka and Bodiky have already fled.

The Foundation to Protect the Hungarian Environment has submitted to
the Court a Compromise Plan to return the Danube into its natural
riverbed.  I hope and trust that the Court will save the ecosystem of
the Szigetkoz by giving this Compromise Plan serious consideration as
it makes its historic ruling.

Respectfully,

<name, title, address>

At 11:01 AM 2/18/97 -0500, Barna Bozoki wrote:
>Alan Freeman writes ("Fast track to market economy dividing Hungary", The
>Globe and Mail, Febr. 17, 1997):
>
>In Hungary: "Real wages have dropped 17 per cent during the past two years,
>inflation remains high and economic growth at a crawl."

        Well, I don't know about the last two years, although with a little
effort I am sure I could find it but last year real wages dropped by four
percent. And one more thing. Because of the black/grey economy most of the
Hungarian economic indicators are unreliable. The non-recorded economy is
about thirty percent of the whole.

        Eva Balogh

At 11:01 AM 2/18/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Alan Freeman writes ("Fast track to market economy dividing Hungary", The
>Globe and Mail, Febr. 17, 1997):
>
>In Hungary: "Real wages have dropped 17 per cent during the past two years,
>inflation remains high and economic growth at a crawl."
>
>Then quotes Attila Agh, a political scientist at Budapest's University of
>Economy: "Hungarians are ill-famed for their pessimism and their too high
>expectations."
>
>Very funny.
>
>Barna Bozoki
>
>Just to further this funny article,I understand that the governement in
Hungary brought,and brings out so many different restrictions,that it is
making private
"enterprise" almost impossible.
This from some one,who I can trust to tell the truth.
Andy.