Please forgive the intrusion for this minor need.  I couldn't find a recipe
anywhere for Hungarian Goulash so I thought I might try this group.  I
figure the best place to find a Hungarian recipe is on a Hungarian list.

If you have a recipe to share, I will post it to rec.food.recipes.  Please
post here or e-mail directly to 

TIA
Bob Long

While I aired similar views on ecconomists etc, could you
tell me if I'm wrong saying, that there are countries with
non liberal/communist governments, who managed amass debts
of similar dimensions. The result of this monatery plolicy
was prudent on the side of Western powers - now more
money flows into the already rich than going the other way.
As back in the old imperialist days...



>
> One may find it not only amusing but quite telling that some
> "experts" wonder about the reasons of "sluggish" economic
> growth in Hungary.
>
> Debt servicing takes out $3-4 Billion/year from an economy
> which is a "third World" version of country with population
> and size of the State of Ohio. There is no way that the
> economy will ever crawl out from under this crushing mountain
> of debt -- and those parading as "experts" without realizing
> this simple fact appear no more than simple fools to my eye.
>
> Of course, this mountain of debt was acquired (and wasted) under
> communist Prime Ministers (interestingly, e.g. by the same name of
> "George" Lazar), and under communist Finance Ministers (such as Mr.
> Bekesi, who is back in his exact same post after the manipulated
> "elections" this Spring). Thus, it should not be surprising that those
> who were gravely mistaken at that time are mortally mistaken still.
>
> The saying goes:"You can fool some of the people all of the time, or all
> of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people
> all of the time".  The "George Lazar" type liberals have fooled all of
> the Hungarian people some of the time before 89, and some of the
> time after May 1994.  However, just as Americans could only be
> fooled by the liberals until a few weeks ago, when people dealt
> liberals a crushing blow, Hungarians will similarly wake up -- much
> sooner than most liberals of Hungary will be able to pack their loot
> and flee here -- to enhance this list's already sizable liberal
> contingency.

On Thu, 1 Dec 1994 13:45:37 EST paul said:
>People have mentioned that food and other things would cost more if
>the illegal workers were paid US wages.  Well,  so be it.  If current
>prices are artificailly low - as we Americans pointed out they
>were in the Soviet Union due to gov't subsidies - then prices should
>be allow to rise to a fair, natural level.  I am willing to accept
>the consequences to me caused by extending justice to the poor.
>
--No argument here, either.  Our food prices are low by EU levels,
and I can't believe that paying U.S. citizens--or legal braceros--
a fair wage for the work now performed by illegals would make that
much difference in the first place.  We don't use illegals to do
other things that we buy.  People on this list have raised the
question about child laborers in the Far East being paid low
wages.  I'm sure they are.  But in the clothing industry, I notice
that American goods are making a comeback.  I think I know why.
Ever buy a shirt made in the Far East?  Did it really fit?  I can't
wear 'em.  Tails are too short.  Seams don't hold.  I see that the
prices aren't all that much less, either.  I'm willing to pay a
few bucks more to get a well-made American shirt.  Since it lasts
longer, it is actually cheaper.

Here is the obligatory Hungarian content.  I was talking to a
hotel clerk in Budapest about three in the morning while I was
still jet-lagged.  He was discussing the economic situation in
Hungary.  The relevant conversation went something like this:

I asked him about the prospects for Hungarian industry.  He
replied, "The trouble is that we make junk.  Here, we always
try to buy Czech or German goods.  We only buy our own when
we can't get or can't afford their goods."  His argument was
that because under socialism, production was to quota rather
than to the market, there were lax standards of craftsmanship.
Since the worker got paid regardless of whether the product
sold, there was no incentive to have pride in the product.
Made sense to me.

Regards,

Charles

On Thu, 1 Dec 1994 18:44:45 -0500 Misha Cornes (GD 1995) said:
                                  None of these goals are part of the
>political agenda of the American left.  In fact, the American "left" is
>extraordinarily moderate when compared to left-wing socialist parties in
>Europe.

--Pardon me, but I think that you should add to your reading list.  You
are correct in saying that American liberals accept the market system,
but there is a very vocal American left which, in fact, espouses
an almost 1920s style of socialism.  Some of these people are in
history and political science, but the bulk of them are in colleges
of education.  You may want to look for Giroux & McLaren's *Critical
Pedagogy, the State, and Cultural Struggle* for an introduction to
this literature.  Further, most European social democrats are far
more accepting of the market system that the American left.  The
social democrats in Germany came to terms with the market in the
late 1950s.  Tony Blair called for the elimination of Clause Four
in the Labour party manifesto this year (he didn't get it, but
nobody takes it seriously any more except a friend of mine in
Nottingham).  And the Swedes were never very interested in public
ownership in the first place.

--The rest of your argument is sound, except for one thing.  True,
the entitlements have burdened the taxpayer, but something also must
be said for tax losses which are over 600 B per year.

Charles

Dear all,
I am a second year, british university student majoring in Hungarian, and
as part of my degree course I shall spend the next academic year (sept
1995 - june 1996) studying in Hungary, most probably in Budapest. I would
greatly appreciate any information on living costs ( monthly rent  of a
one or two bedroom flat, water, heating and telephone(if I'm lucky) bills,
weekly cost of food, and so on), setting up a forint bank account into
which I can transfer money from my British account, and anyone's recent
personal experience of ELTE (particularly support systems for foreign
students , good professors in the departments of History and Hungarian).
Thanks in anticipation,
Zoe Toft                    

There are two different varieties depending the meat used: beef and lamb.
 When the word "gulyas" is mentioned without any qualifier, beef is implied.

Sautee some onions, when soft but not burned put cubed beef in skillet.  Add
generous amount of red pepper, small amount of cumin seed, salt and pepper
and mix.  Make sure that while adding the spices the heat is turned down as
the red pepper(paprika) has a tendency to turn bitter if burned.
Once the stuff is mixed add water.  Keep in mind that gulyas in Hungary is a
soup, thus a lot of water is to be added.
Adding a tomato and a bell pepper to the soup improves the flavor.  Some
people even add some spatzle or cubed potatoes to it.
Enjoy

Alex

> late 1950s.  Tony Blair called for the elimination of Clause Four
> in the Labour party manifesto this year (he didn't get it, but
> nobody takes it seriously any more except a friend of mine in
> Nottingham).  And the Swedes were never very interested in public
> ownership in the first place.
>
If nobody takes it seriously, how come they publicly humiliated Blair
about it?  It is Charles-type  democracy everywhere - let the poor
dears vote for a policy, we will do something completely different
for their own good... Hm. Familiar sentiment. Why they bother
calling it democracy? 

In article > paul >
writes:
>Date: Wed, 30 Nov 1994 18:24:07 EST
>From: paul >
>Subject: Re: B-H once again






>Concerning the second point, Hitler wanted all of Europe, but the Serbs want
>        what they consider their historic land.  I don't think the Serbs
>        could justify attacking another country, ie Hungary, Moldavia,
>        Montenegro, etc.

>Paul

Yes, the Serbs want what they consider their historic land.  I am aware of
some nationalist Serbian sentiments of "Serbia up to Visegrad".  They claim
that Serbs were in this area up to the time before the Hungarian conquest--
their historic land.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
N. H.

Kedves Tamas es Kolos!

Mikor eloszor elolvastam Tamas irasat, azt mondtam, sajnos igaza van.
Mikor elolvastam Kolos irasat, azt mondtam, sajnos igaza van.
Jozan esszel Tamasnak adok igazat, de a szivemben Kolosnak.
Es azt hiszem igy kell lenni. Tudni kell hogy mi a valosag, es mit lehet
elerni, de erzelmileg minden kulfoldi (beleertve Erdelyi) magyart, magyarnak
kene tekinteni, es az en szivemben Erdely mindig magyar lesz.
U.I. Az onbecsulesrol. Itt nem szemelyi a kritika, de az mar csak logikus
hogy ket vilaghaboru elvesztese es negyeven ev szovjet elnyomasa utan,
a nyomorusagban nem lehet a nemzetnek nagyon magas onerzete, es egy kis
javulas rankferne. (Remelem hogy meg is lesz mikor jobbra fordul a helyzet.)

Lengyel Sandor

An interesting piece of news appeared today in "Hirmondo," the
English-language electronic news summary. It is the summary of a longer
article which appeared in *Magyar Nemzet.* The title: "Ro1zsadomb:
Belgium--Ko3ba1nya: Syria." According to the article, among all countries
which provide reliable data to the World Health Organization the death rate
among Hungarian middle aged men is the very worst. The figures can be
compared to the situation at the end of the 1920s and early 1930s. Within the
capital there is a span of six years between the lowest and the highest
figures of life expectancy. The second district's [the Ro1zsadomb, or Hill of
Roses, a very well-off neighborhood] statistics are the same as those of
Belgium, the nineteenth district's [Ko3ba1nya, a working-class district] can
be compared to the statistics of Syria.

I wonder what kind of conclusions can be drawn from these highly divergent
figures.

Eva Balogh

Shortly after the elections, during the first weeks of the Horn government, I
noticed a certain ambivalence toward membership in NATO in Horn's statements
on the subject. Although there was a spirited discussion, pro and con, on
this subject between Zoli Fekete and myself, my position was bolstered by
statements echoing my position by a Hungarian political scientist. However,
in the last couple of months, I noticed new enthusiasm toward membership,
especially in statements made by the minister of defense, Gyorgy Keleti. This
morning, however, I noticed the following report:

>HUNGARIAN OPPOSITION PARTY CRITICIZES PREMIER. The Presidium of
>the Alliance of Young Democrats on 30 November criticized Prime
>Minister Gyula Horn for his statement on NATO during his visit to
>Warsaw in November, MTI reports. Horn had said that Hungary
>supported an "intensive dialogue with Moscow in order to
>dissipate misunderstandings and fears" among the Russian
>leadership. The AYD Presidium argued that this statement
>questioned Hungary's commitment to NATO--the only international
>security organization capable of guaranteeing Hungary's security
>and Western orientation. The Presidium called on Horn to make
>clear at the upcoming CSCE summit in Budapest that Hungary is a
>sovereign state and would like to be a full member of NATO as
>soon as possible. -- Edith Oltay, RFE/RL, Inc.


I must say this sounds pretty terrible. Almost as if we were still living at
the time when Hungary was totally dependent on the Soviet Union and every
time it made the slightest foreign policy move it had to consult with Moscow.
As the matter of fact, Hungary should not discuss this matter with Russia at
all. It is better to leave this task to the United States and the other NATO
members.

Eva Balogh

Alexander Berendi ) wrote:
: There are two different varieties depending the meat used: beef and lamb.
:  When the word "gulyas" is mentioned without any qualifier, beef is implied.

I've tried substituting rabbit and the results were great.
--
******************************************************************************

"Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world.  Unreasonable people
attempt to adapt the world to themselves.  All progress, therefore,
depends on unreasonable people."  ..George Bernard Shaw

        Frank Sandor

MET--HUNGARIAN ELECTRONIC EXCHANGE--(Magyar Elektronikus T zsde)---MET
=-=-=ELECTRONIC JOURNAL  HU ISSN 1216-0229 =-=-=-= copyright 1990.

Az Orszaggyules 1994. evi rendkivuli ulesszaka december 5-6-ai es 10-ei
hetfo kedd es szombat ulesenek elozetese.

Az Orszaggyules hetfon 10 orakkor kezd es a varhato befejezese 23 ora.

Az Eszak-Atlanti Szerzodes szervezetevel alairt "Bekepartnerseg"
program Keretdokumentumanak megerositeserol szolo orszaggyulesi
hatarozati javaslat altalanos vitaja es a hatarozathozatal-lal kezdi
a munkat a Tisztelt haz.
>majd folytatodik a 95. evi koltsegvetesrol szolo csomag vitaja.

A dec. 21 -ei Debrecenben a Reformatus Kollegiumban az Ideglenes
Nemzetgyules helyszinen az 50 evfordulo esemenyeire emlekezik meg az
Orszaggyules.  Unnepseget  tudomanyos ulesszak, koszoruzas
szinesiti.  Orszaggyulesi hatarozatra is sor kerul, amelyben az
Ideglenes Nemzetgyules-sel kapcsolatban uj torvenyt alkot es egyuttal
az 1954 -ben szuletett torvenyt hatalyon kivul helyezi.

Kedden delelott a frakciok uleseznek majd delutan a szokasos Azonnali
kerdesek es valaszok orajara, Kerdesek es az Interpelaciokra kerul sor.

Szombaton a reszletes vitak lezarasaig tart az Orszaggyules.

Sos Tibor tajekoztatta a resztvevoket a az EBEE konferenciaval
kapcsolatos szervezeseket, amely a Parlament Kupolacsarnokanak eszaki
szarnyanak lezarasat (jelenti este 5 ora utan.)

A reszletekrol erdeklodo kedves olvasoink figyelmebe ajanljuk
LEVELEZESI rovatunkat,   HISZEN UJSAGUNK INTERAKTIV....

Dr ORCZAN Zsolt

Rovataink:
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