Hello Everyone,
        I am from New Jersey, USA.  I am going to Hungary in a couple of
days
for my cousins wedding.  After the wedding, I am going travelling by train
through out europe.  I would like to start the trip in Budapest.  If
anyone has any info on hostels or and affordable pensions in Budapest
please e-mail any info  or post a reply.
                                Thanks in advance
                                Laszlo Istvan Skoda

On Mon, 31 Jul 1995, paul wrote:

> Wally Keeler wrote:
> >To be as exact as possible the "Hungarians and Romanians" all of Romanian
> >citizenship.
>
> Then you clearly do not understand.  Citizenship is not the issue, as it has
> been imposed.  Ethnic/racial/family ties are the issue:  are you tied to
> a Hungarian family and culture or a Rumanian family and culture.

I am tied to neither, so it is certain that I have no ethnic bias in this
tribal "dispute." You do.

> Since the
> Rumanians are always looking for reason to spit on the Hungarians as the
> untrustworthy trash us Hungarians are,

I've heard many Magyars regard the Romanians as uncivilized, loud-mouthed
boors, and untrustworthy trash. I've heard it many times inside Hungary
and outside. Hungarians are neither worse nor better than the Romanians
in this regard. Who spits at who is childish, and history has proven that
this sort of childishness has lethal consequences.

>it is important to announce as loud
> and as often as possible that there were more Hungarians than Rumanians in
> Rumania, responsible for the start of the revolution that ended communism
> in Rumania - that it happened in a traditionally Hungarian town.
> Paul Gelencser

Just gotta score that point don't you. Just gotta set the record
straight. Just gotta get those Romanians to understand the true facts.
This is not important. What is important is the future, not the past. You
keep tripping over the same hurdle -- no wonder Central Europe is the
Second World.


Wally Keeler                                    Poetry
Creative Intelligence Agency                    is
Peoples Republic of Poetry                      Poetency

Sandor Lengyel x2495 > writes:
<<<
Thank you for the history lesson. Even assuming that Seton-Watson had erred in
some places in his writing, (I never completly beleive historians) there is
no smoke without fire, and it seems that hte hungarian history books need
improvment. I was always more for Szecsenyi than Kossuth. This just reenforces
my feelings. As a hungarian, I feel sorry for the past, and I might better now
understand the present, but two wrongs do not make one right, and I do feel
that the hungarians in Romania should have cultural autonomy,  which they don't
have. I also feel, that present romanian history books could also improve
their impartiality.
>>>


I have to stress again and again that I don't favor neither do I
insinuate any kind of `reciprocity'. This is silly. I presented here the work
of an historian, Seton-Watson, whose passion for _facts_ is acknowledged. Six
long messages containing _statements of fact_ ... so, if there is
something which I would like to suggest, this would be : please, proceed
to reply in a similar way. Try (that's not your case, however) not to
reply with political slogans, this would never settle the problems (if any).
Thank you for your reply, which sounds wise and quite promising. Please
would you bother to define what "cultural autonomy" is. Where is the
boundary between "cultural" end "ethnic" autonomy, or, if that is your
doctrine, are they con-substantial ? Personally I believe in individual
freedom and in the powerful principle of local autonomy which has nothing to do
with ethnicity. Why is it not enough ? There is a Hungarian ethnical party
in Romania, that is, HDUR. Maybe Hungary is formally allowing the
existence of ethnical parties, isn't it. Maybe there are not enough classes
taught in Hungarian at "Babes-Bolyai" University in Cluj-Napoca (although
I know there are plenty of them) ? Ever heard about `Kriterion' publishing
house ?
Please state some _positive_ facts, that is, well documented and statistically
motivated. If you do this and reveal a systematic misconduct, we can put an end
to
it together. _There is_  good will in Romania, but most of the citizens
are somewhat puzzled by this kind of Janus-like politics...
In order to give a solution, first we have to formulate correctly and
unambiguously what the problem is.

Regards,
Mihai Caragiu



         ==================================
        | Dr. Mihai Caragiu                |
        | Institute of Mathematics         |
        | Romanian Academy of Sciences     |
        | e-mail:  |
         ==================================

Dr. Mihail Caragiu:

>>Very few people in Romania think like this.
>>Are there many revisionists in Hungary, by the way ?

Actually, very few. For most hungarians it is common sense, that we cannot
turn back the clock. Even those who wish it,  are reallistic enough.
  The problem is not with revisionalism but with power. Romania has the power
over the hungarians and not the otherway around.
  Romania has a large hungarian minority, and because of this Romania feels
destabilized by it. They fear, that giving too much freedom, they might demand
not only cultural but also political autonomy. This fear is normal, and it
does exist in any nation, (not just the Romanian), who try to subjugate a
large ethinic population.
  By your history lesson, it seems we did it too. But as you can see, it is
not the solution.

                Sandor Lengyel

Why bother even writing useless chain letters. They don't achieve
anything except to use up recources better used for anything that is more
important.
GIVE IT UP !

This doesn't surprise me after all, we are talking about the Romanian
government here.


                  Lee Laborczfalvi