In article >,
Michael Estreicher > wrote:
>In article >, 
>(schoonjans) wrote:
>
>> In article
>> >, Ricardo
>> Alberto Miranda > wrote:
>> 
>> > On 1 Feb 1996, Monica Fernandez wrote:
>> > 
>> > > Ola, vou tentar de novo mandar alguma outra maneira de dizer i love you 
>> > > (acho que houve um pequeno erro, desculpa :))
>> > > 
>> > > Espanhol: te quiero ou te amo
>> > > Catalao: t'estimo 
>> > > Francaise: je t'aime.
>> > > 
>> > > 
>> > > 
>> 
>> Polish: kocham cie
>Russian Tevoyevo loobloo

Actually Russian will be "Ya liubliu tebiya".

Matyas ) wrote:
: Hi Alexander!

: There is one thing (at least) I don't really understand concerning these thre
ads:
: why should the Hungarians (and those writing from a non-Romanian point of vie
w) be
: the ones who "have to be careful in what" they "say". Anthony made a statemen
t
: he believes. You cannot prove by any means that Romanians have always been th
e
: majority in Transylvania. I don't know about any historical evidence proving 
: this up to very close to Trianon (and then it still was a rather close call).

Excuse me,  but weren't you the guy complaining why any discussion about the
hungarian minority in Romania has to get to historical issues ?
Some times you advocate minority rights on a human rights base while 
some times you talk about historical unjustice. Yes, saying that another 
people sneaked into "your teritory" implies claims of unjustice.
I think that you are intelligent enough to realize that by mixing the two
you want be able to gain the trust of the romanian people. Wich could imply
that you will not succeed in improving those minority rights.
Or may be that you are not interested at all by minority rights. You probably
would prefere "majority rights". 


: So I think you should also be careful in stating that Hungarians "had been an
d
: continued to be a minority" in Transylvania, because their minority status
: has only developed as the result of the sneak-invasion (migration) of Transyl
vania
: by Romanians.

Yeah, yeah. A nation of 20 million people just get in it's actual place by
sneaking through various frontiers. I just wonder why all the other nations
needed to have bloody wars in order to achieve the same thing.

Cristian Alb

Sagapo -- Greek

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

 Dear Gotthard,

 I've got two requests and an inquiry: first of all, please remove the
incorrect reference to me as maintainer of the copy you grabbed. Second,
it would be nice if you made some attribution to me, whose work the bulk
of the text (with the exception of the credit for UMCP tagged on) appears
to be. 

 My question about your list is: I haven't received anything at all after
the initial acknowledgement ever since re-subscribing (on 01 Feb 1996) -
is there a reason for this? 

On Tue, 13 Feb 1996, Gotthard Saghi-Szabo wrote:

> I have deposited a HyperNews version of the FAQ at URL:
> http://mineral.umd.edu/faq/
> [...]
> As soon as enough significant material is collected, we are going to 
> start the distribution of the new FAQ - hopefully, this time, as opposed 
> to the current FAQ - without any disturbing bias.

 Owl - sparrow - big head. You know the drill.
- --
 Zoli , keeper of <http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/>;
# Wallace Sayre said, "Academic politics is the most vicious and bitter
# form of politics, because the stakes are so low."  He didn't know
# Usenet: welcome to the next level.           (Ron "Asbestos" Dippold)

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If you are interested in learning Hungarian or brushing up on your
grammar, there is a new online Hungarian course at:
http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~arubin/hungarian.html

Check it out and comments, suggestions, or corrections are welcome!

Although our freedom is much more limited today and our voices can
only be heard very faintly, I do not want to sound alarmist. I do not
want to predict that this government would not allow elections to
take place. But, by the time elections will be held, there might be no
paper in the opposition at all, not even weeklies, to carry its voice.
This coalition even might amend the Constitution so that it would not
lose the elections easily. I just hope against hope that the parties in
the opposition will wake up and take the liquidation of the
opposition press to the European Parliament in Strasbourg. But they
are inexperienced, not really cooperating, and afraid of the media.
They do not seem to understand that those who are silent can also be
killed more easily than those who put up a fight.

The US Embassy - headed now by an Ambassador that is easily the
most disliked and despised foreigner in Hungary in oppositionist
circles -  that protested so often and so loud during the previous
government about its handling of the media issue, will also be silent.
You can imagine how loud this same Embassy  would protest and
what threats it would use if a future right-wing government would
wield the economic stick to kill all the opposition papers. It would
say the least that Hungary will not have a chance to join the EU and
NATO.

Archie, you at Freedom House, are the only Western organization
that takes notice of what's going on here.  I ask you to stay watchful
and sound the whistle if the last remaining daily in opposition is shut
down. If you do not do that how can the next government convince
Hungarians that freedom of the press and freedom of general is a
value that is dear to the West and a concern that they also should
share and embrace? Already only 4 percent of the population think
that the freedom of the press is an important issue, as a poll
published early December shows.

Well, this has been a long letter, and I would have been much
happier to tell you of more pleasurable things at the end of the year.
Archie, we have come to know each other very well as colleagues
during the year and a half when we worked together in New York. I
think I am not exaggerating if I say that you have come to like me
and appreciate my reverence to facts. However, this time, I urge you
not to believe me. Check everything what I am saying. Talk to
Jonathan Sunley, Director of the Windsor Club, or Daniel McAdams of
the Budapest Sun who have been here almost since the change of the
system.  Or talk to Simon Evans of the Budapest Week.  Talk to
officials of the parties in the opposition, talk to those hundreds of
journalists purged, demoted, or muzzled. Talk to people on the
streets how they feel about the justice system, and whether they felt
threatened if they wanted to exercise their civil or human rights. Ask
them whether they would not fear  losing their job if they spoke up.
Do not believe me, Archie. But come and listen. The sooner you do it
the better for us and for the cause of freedom and democracy in
Hungary. If something, unexpected were to happen here, you should
not say that you were not forewarned. Of course, we are not too
naive.
If the West refused to smell Auschwitz, see the barbed wires of the
Gulag Archipelago or the 15 million Ukrainians starved to death for
such a long time, why would it notice the closure of the last paper in
the opposition in a tiny, post-communist country especially if the
daily is not left-of-center?  Archie, I know that in all of your life you
have hated the West that does not want to see. You have not changed
since we met, Archie, have you?

With all my best wishes for you in the coming year of 1996.

Istvan (Lovas)

(Post scriptum: Since Lovas's "Open Letter", the two remaining
dailies of the opposition have been eradicated. "Magyar Nemzet"
was bought up by the liberal media-moguls, and the last issue
of "Uj Magyarorszag" was printed yesterday.

Hungarian Freedom of Press in Hungary, RIP.

Internet is the last bastion of Hungarian Free Press!)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On 14 Feb 1996  wrote:
> <JT> Hollosi az MIT.EDU-n naponta utankozli ezt a Soc.Culture.Magyar-t!
> <ZF> Amint ezt mar letargyaltuk: Hollosi semmit sem kozol az "MIT.EDU"-n, es
>     az SCM lista egyebkent is egyszeruen news-to-email gateway, nem utankozle
s.

> TENY (igy jelenik meg Hollosi neve alatt NAPONTA az SCM-bol egy valogatas):
>[a WWW archivum cime 'leleplezoen' hangsulyozva]
 Miutan eredetileg email terjesztesrol volt szo, ezzel egy mellekszal
mellekszalahoz erkeztunk - ami persze nem fekezi Toth urat a hamis
beallitasban: itt egyszeruen az s.c.m news-forgalom a HIX.COM (aminek az
MIT-hez semmi koze nincsen) szolgaltatason keresztul emailezett anyaganak
archivjerol van szo (mellesleg a "valogatas" is eleg felrevezeto, miutan
az email listak kivetelevel mind benne foglaltatik).
 > [...]
 > (1) Hollosi etikatlansagot kovet el azaltal hogy sajat neve alatt
 > utankozli az SCM-et (ha utankozolni nem szabad)
 Egyreszt ez nem utankozles, masreszt az erintettek nem tiltakoztak -
szemben a BLA altal szerkesztett anyag lekoppintasa ugyevel, aminek
mentegeteserol van itt szo. No es persze Toth ur minden csures-csavarasa
ellenere is teljesen vilagos, hogy az SCM irasok nem Hollosi neve alatt
jelennek meg hanem szerzoik sajatjakent - szemben a BLA Nemzet-esitett
valtozataval amit az eltulajdonito olyannyira magaenak vallott hogy
rajtakapvan hosszasan (noha sikertelenul) bizonygatta hogy onallo munkarol
lenne szo a BLA kiadvanyhoz valo feltuno hasonlatossag ellenere... 

> (2) Fekete Zoltan hazudik, hogy Hollosi "semmit sem kozol az MIT.EDU-n"
> (ld. http://hix.mit.edu/friss2/  or  http://hix.mit.edu/)
 Ez nem kozles, hanem archivalas - raadasul olyan anyage, ami nem kulon
munkaval osszeszerkesztett valogatas (mint a BLA sajtoszemleje), hanem
olyan egyenek Usenet-cikkei akik eleddig egyetlen tiltakozo szot sem
mondtak az anyagaik szelesebb korben elerhetove tetele ellen.
 Es foleg: ez nem "MIT.EDU", hanem Hollosi sajat tulajdonu hix.mit.edu
gepe, amit mar szinten letargyaltunk. Miutan "MIT.EDU" cimu gep - akar 
virtualis szolgaltatas sem - egyszeruen nincsen, az osszehasonlitas a 
siliconvalley.com fonokevel meg akkor is abszurd lenne, ha az MIT domain 
birtokosanak barmi koze lenne a HIX-hez (amikent persze nincsen)...

- --
 Zoli , keeper of <http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/>;
 <'finger '> 
 NOTE: spamsters and bulk emailers see 'X-Policy*:' in the 
header for the charges to be imposed for net abuse!

KC2: Dudley+ (Grubor+)*2 (Fomin+++)/3 (cjames++)*3 
     Iatskovski- (Petersen--)/2

SELLERS BEWARE: I will never buy anything from companies associated
with inappropriate online advertising (unsolicited commercial email,
excessive multiposting etc), and discourage others from doing so too!

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I could go on and on to provide you a with a mile long list of
examples to show how the country is sinking back into the old ways,
and I would certainly do so and complement my material if you
required.

People are cowed and even afraid to exercise their rights. While in
Germany, Poland, and the Czech Republic, hundreds of thousands of
citizens show interest in seeing their secret police files, in Hungary,
there have only been two such cases - presently lingering at the
courts pending appeals, and the hefty legal fees have to be paid by
the applicants, i.e., the victims of the totalitarian regime that spied on
them.

Politicians or deputies in the National Assembly are not investigated
into former ties with the secret police, and even the President of the
Republic resists to show an example and request his own X-raying at
least to allay innuendoes that he, too, was a police informant.
The party system has serious flaws.  The  new and the old forces do
not have the same chance. While the MSZP has managed to hold on to
thousands of properties, the new parties have absolutely nothing,
and they have difficulty even with  keeping their headquarters. E.g.,
the Smallholders Party, the most popular party according to all
recent opinion polls, is forced to sublet part of its headquarters.
Other parties have had to sell theirs.

The old comrades are, of course,  the most fervent partisans of the
new capitalist system since they are the beneficiaries and they are
the new owners - a truly homogeneous class. As a journalist put it
succinctly and ironically, "show me a KDNP banker".  KDNP is the
Hungarian acronym for the Christian Democratic People's Party.
Since these ex-comrades sold and have been selling state property to
themselves directly or through proxies, they are pushing for the
privatization of every state assets imaginable. That is why they
really look like US conservatives from afar and that is the reason for
which the American Ambassador in Budapest who has superb ties
with the ruling coalitions and practically none with the opposition is
selling Horn in Washington as a truly republican conservative.
When I use the term "ex-comrades," I also refer to the SZDSZ whose
leading members have long-standing family ties with members of
the MSZP. And family ties are, in Hungary, one of the most important
factors in politics - although foreigners and political scientists
practically never pay attention to them. The "coalition of fire and
water" as the present government is described by Western papers to
the amusement of Hungarians is more like the returning of the
errand son to the fold following some infantile disorders such as
anti-Communist escapades and rhetoric that is clearly things of the
past. Now, father and son are in more serious business.

The trials against perpetrators of mass killings committed in 1956
have come to a screechy halt. But, at the same time, those who
publish or distribute books that do not please the power-that-be face
court and police actions. In 1995, Peter Csontos, a bookseller, was
harassed by the police. Another bookseller, Bela Gondos, also knows a
few things about police harassment.

The police in the countryside carries out bolder actions. On August
17, an early morning raid on the apartment of Mr. Jozsef Kovacs, a
bookseller, was made  by the Police Headquarters of the Hajdu-Bihar
Country acting on an anonymous report notifying the police on the
presence of "subversive literature" in Mr. Kovacs's apartment. The
house search was done with  reference to an official position taken
by Mr. Kalman Gyorgyi, the Attorney General.  The Attorney General
was, incidentally, the Party Secretary at the Eotvos Lorand
University of Arts and Letters during the communist era. Mr. Gyorgyi
and the head of the Supreme Court are presently asking the
Constitutional Court to halt even the possibility of persecuting mass
killers of Hungarians during the 1956 revolution.

This government does not take the slightest public insult or even
jokes without retribution.  In Ady Endre street, the Kispest district of
Budapest, Mr. Mihaly Hanzely, who operates a radio and television
repair service, put some legally published, mostly liberal, periodicals
on display, among other 168 hours, a flagship weekly of SZDSZ, and
HVG, a wide circulation economic weekly. He also placed  a quote in
his window by a well-known Hungarian emigre writer, died in
California, showing the nature of Communists.  On May 25, at 12:45
PM, a police car stopped in front of his store. Four policemen got out
of the patrol car and upbraided the owner for "instigation" and for
displaying "totalitarian symbols."  The owner of the store protested
and said that they were on the cover pages of official publications.
Notwithstanding his protests, the policemen confiscated the
periodicals and warned him of the dire consequences of his actions.
Several photos were taken of his shop window. Later, Mr. Hanzely
was summoned to Gyorskocsi utca for questioning, and told that he
would be tried. Gyorskocsi utca was the dreaded place where
political "criminals" were questioned during the Kadar regime.
Years ago, Mr. Miklos Toldi was beaten by members of the
Democratic Charta for carrying a banner insulting their democratic
credentials. In the West, the aggressors would be punished. In
today's Hungary, Mr. Toldi is prosecuted for his action "disturbing the
peace".

You would think that cases such as these would be reported by the
Helsinki Committee in Budapest. It would not, of course, since the
Helsinki Committee happens to be  in the hands of the Free
Democrats. More precisely, it is headed by Ferenc Koszeg, an SZDSZ
delegate in the Parliament. Quite a show: the SZDSZ is investigating
human rights abuses by the police which is also under the ministerial
guidance of the SZDSZ.  An Orwellian world come true.

There is a certain division of labor between the two parties of the
coalition. The socialists are more interested in controlling the
economy and the foreign service, while the SZDSZ is much more
interested in dominating the field of culture and the media. And both
have a natural predilection toward the banking sector. However,
there is a crucial difference, as Hungarians have come to notice,
between the styles of dominance between the two parties. The older
ex-communists are content with having or acquiring what they want
whereas the younger  SZDSZ is not: it wishes to destroy its opponents.
I tell you a recent example.  A Hungarian company, called Kordax,
bought the paper in which this letter is published. From the very
moment the purchase was made public, vicious attacks were started
against the firm in the public broadcasting and the private media for
its alleged violations of the laws. Authorities launched a series of
investigations and impounded assets of the company which managed
to paralyze its operation. This means, of course, that the company has
financial difficulties in subsidizing Uj Magyarorszag in which you see
very few ads, the bread and butter of other papers that support the
coalition.

I am almost sure that you are not familiar with these stories. The
SZDSZ and the ex-communists are in an excellent position to hide
events and  abuses going on in Hungary. If they fear that a scandal
hurts them, it is simply not reported, and papers in the opposition
are not given any information by the old boys' network. A scandal
may broke into the open only if different factions of ex-comrades are
competing with each other. In case  the political opposition brings a
scandal to the parliament as it did  recently, involving a minister in
an enormous racket dubbed the "oilgate", the public broadcasting
media jumps to the defense of the government.  This was done so
brazenly by the Hungarian Radio that Fidesz asked for an
investigation of the reports. The investigation is done by the
Hungarian Radio. You can guess what it will find.

A couple of weeks earlier, Mr. Attila Kristof, perhaps the best known
journalist of Magyar Nemzet, wrote practically in the same vein just
before the paper's privatization. The new editor, said Mr. Kristof,  is
reputed to be a senior editor of Nepszava or another top man of
MUOSZ.  You can write the rest of the story. The coming  massacre of
journalists not toeing the line, the sudden mass appearance of ads in
the paper, and the sadly and absolutely predictable silence of the
same foreign journalists stationed in Budapest who published dozens
of stories on the Hungarian media war only a couple of years ago.
Right now, there is only one national daily which is still free. Uj
Magyarorszag sells about 40 thousand copies against several
hundreds of thousands sold by papers supporting the present
coalition. Uj Magyarorszag is very poor: it does not have the money
to commission opinion polls, to station correspondents abroad, and to
subscribe to fancy news services. It barely survives. State-owned
companies and those companies that the ex-communists privatized -
that is, practically all Hungarian companies - place ads only in papers
that support their ideology.  This Tammany Hall-type of collusion
between the different interest groups of the present wielders of
power has already a venerable literature, such as the most recent
book, called Media Power, by one of  the countries most brilliant, if
not the most brilliant, constitutional lawyer, Mr. Bela Pokol.  But even
Mr. Sandor Demjan, one of Hungary's most successful businessmen,
and a man with clear MSZP, formerly MSZMP, credentials said in the
August 26, 1995 issue of Uj Magyarorszag that in Hungary the press
is not free because big companies "do not dare advertise in
opposition papers for fear of retribution from the powers-that-be."
Pro-government journalists would deny all of this and they maintain
that advertising is a simple matter of the number of copies.

Let me  tell you the most recent examples among the dozens that are
well known to Hungarian journalists how little weight this argument
carries. The weekly Magyarorszag was an oppositionist periodical. It
did not have a single ad.  It was, of course, losing money as all
oppositionist periodicals which suffer under an unwritten ban by
advertisers. Then, it was privatized. It reverted to the red logo of its
former communist self.  Already the first issue was, surprise, full of
ads, many of them full-page. Among the advertisers you could see
Hungary's largest bank, the state-owned OTP, and, of course,
Postabank. This time, it seems again that advertisers have thrown
out their concern about circulation and even stopped worrying about
the prospect of how successful the paper is  going to be in a market
saturated with pro-government media products.  Days after the
purchase, the editorial staff of the oppositionist Magyarorszag was
sent packing. There was deadly silence in the press and in MUOSZ
circles. You saw  none of the loud protests accompanied the first
privatization of Magyar Nemzet when it was sold not to the liberal
Svenska Dagbladet but to the conservative Hersant group during the
Antall-regime. Although  Hersant's hands were bound by a contract
that did not allow the French company to select its own  editor-in-
chief. And that first privatization was of Magyar Nemzet was played
up as a national disgrace.  Later, Magyar Nemzet was re-nationalized.
The public broadcasting media is in an even worse shape.  Earlier,
Hungarian Television and Hungarian Radio used to have pluralism.
There were journalists friendly and, most of them, hostile, to the
previous regime. At Hungarian Television, there is, today, not a single
editor left that is not supportive of the present coalition. At
Hungarian Radio, Mr. Pal Lakatos, the editor of the last program that
did not have a pro-government tilt, was demoted and the show, the
most popular among all programs despite its incredible timing
starting at 6 am on Sunday, was put in the hands of the head of
Radio Kossuth, the main channel of Hungarian Radio. It shows you
how much the left in Hungary is afraid of competing ideas and
competing colleagues.  Perhaps they feel that if  chances are roughly
equal, the outcome is very uncertain for them.

In May  1994, I published an open letter to Adrian Karatnycky, the
Director of Freedom House, in Pesti Hirlap.  I predicted that daily
without communists roots would not survive a day following Horn's
victory. I also made other predictions as to the curtailing of the
freedom of the press. If you ask Adrian for my letter you will see for
yourself that I was, unfortunately, right in almost all of my
premonitions.

Now, I am turning to you in Uj Magyarorszag which has just been
threatened by its printer, Szikra  (Iskra in Russian, and you can
guess what has changed at a printing house that features this name
so proudly) owned by Postabank, that it might stop printing our
daily very soon.  The reason is, as always, economic. If this happens,
there will be no opposition paper in Hungary. And the minute  this
happens, Archie, I will become a politician.  They are allowed to talk
directly to the people.

During the previous government, there was a skillfully orchestrated
campaign on the left - it was one of 37 major campaigns in my
counting - to predict that there would be no elections in Hungary.
Numerous intellectuals  you know of participated in the campaign
from Laszlo Lengyel to Miklos Vamos who wrote lengthy articles in
describing, and speculating on, the ways of the coming coup d'etat.
One article a week. Foreign correspondents picked up the story, and
Vamos carried it to the States in the Nation.

Kedves Olvasok!

Mindenkinek figyelmebe ajanlom a "Hungarian FAQ" tortenetenek nyomonkoveteset.
A tortenet erdekes es hiven peldazza a "magyar" gondolkodast. Engedjek meg 
nekem, hogy feluletesen megprobaljam osszefoglalni mi tortent eddig.
Amit irok reszben feltetelezeseken alapszik, igy nagyon orulnek ha az 
erintettek kijavitanak hibaimat.

Eloszor volt Zoli Fekete (ZF) aki oszzeallitott nagy munkaval egy ugynevezett 
Hungarian FAQ-ot ahol megtalalhato sok magyar vonatkozasu informacio, fontos 
technikai kerdesek, magyar vonatkozasu forrasok cimei.
Valoszinuleg nehanyan kimaradtak. El is kezdodott ZF minden hataron tuli 
ocsarlasa, keptelensegekkel valo ragalmazasa nem beszelve eszeveszett 
hulyesegek koveteleserol, pl. "ZF mondjon le".

Ideidezek nehany megnyilatkozast az enyhebbek kozul. (Nem idezem Josef_Toth 
internet publishert, mert szerintem e szemely nem letezik azonfelul 
megnyilatkozasai tul durvak jelen osszefoglalo szempontjabol)

Odor Tibor (OT) irja:
>A "keeper of the Hungarian faq" pedig szerintem jobb ha lemond onkent,
>mert azt az inkorrektseget, amit elkovet nem lehet tovabb toleralni.
>Es nem is szabad.

>Igy jo lenne, ha tobben osszedugnank a fejunket, pl. Saghi-Szabo Gotthard,
>Joseph Toth, en, es meg akinek kedve van, es megcsinalnank az uj 
>magyar.faq-t, esetleg automatizalva.

ZF tehat inkorrekt es tovabb nem toleralhato. Harman latszanak kozos 
velemenyen lenni: OT, Gotthard Sagi-Szabo (GSSz) es Joseph_Toth (J_T) aki 
mellesleg egy internet account.:)

GSSz valasza:
>Kedves Tibor,

>Szivesen segitek egy uj, targyilagosabb FAQ letrehozasaban, ambar idom 
>sajnos nem engedi hogy a fenntartasaban is reszt vegyek -  helyet 

Azaz a FAQ szerinte sem volt targyilagos. (Megint ne fecsereljunk idot annak 
feszegetesere, hogyan lehetne egy FAQ targyilagos...)

Meg egy aranyos OT-tol:

>Szerintem optimista vagy, hogy a Fekete Zoltan egy 
>"konnyen megtevesztheto, marginalis" szemely. Szerintem egy komoly 
>bajkevero. 

Rovidesen megszuletett a megoldas, GSSz khirdeti:

>Hi,
>I have deposited a HyperNews version of the FAQ at URL:
>http://mineral.umd.edu/faq/
...es
>As soon as enough significant material is collected, we are going to 
>start the distribution of the new FAQ - hopefully, this time, as opposed 
>to the current FAQ - without any disturbing bias.

Azaz vegre ez nem lesz olyan reszrehajlo mint ZF-e.
Felkerestem az emlitett helyet es eros deja vu erzesem tamadt, mintha lattam 
volna mar az anyag nagy reszet ZF-nel!

Kicsit kesobb ZF a tole megszokott igen szereny stilusban irja:
> Dear Gotthard,

> I've got two requests and an inquiry: first of all, please remove the
>incorrect reference to me as maintainer of the copy you grabbed. Second,
>it would be nice if you made some attribution to me, whose work the bulk
>of the text (with the exception of the credit for UMCP tagged on) appears
>to be. 

Ebbol nekem ugy tunik, hogy az inkorrektsegrol siro szerzoharmas 
"elfelejtette" masolas elott ertesiteni az eredeti szerzot.

Az en kerdesem: Mi ennek az oka? Ez a szemet viselkedes magyarspecifikus vagy 
csak szimplan "human"?

A FAQ-sztorihoz mindenkinek aki szereti az emberi "melysegeket" tovabbi jo 
szorakozast kivan: SzP.



--------------------------------------
Peter Szaszvari
http://iap11.ethz.ch/users/szp/szp.htm
--------------------------------------

Ich liebe dich in German

Foreigners are even much more ignorant of what is really going on
here. Hungarian is a language that is not easily penetrated, and any
journalist coming here - just read their dispatches - quote mainly
SZDSZ figures now just like they quoted them when the Free
Democrats were in  opposition. Or they refer to "independent"
political consultants such as Mr. Tibor Vidos whose former important
role at  SZDSZ and his evident sympathies are never mentioned.   Or
they quote "independent" intellectuals, the likes of George Konrad,
the writer, or Miklos Gaspar Tamas, the philosopher, whose SZDSZ
membership is, somehow, never gets mentioned. Most of the top men
in the SZDSZ speak English or German. But that's only part of the
story since many opposition figures also speak languages, and, if a
lack of English  were really an obstacle, there is an ancient profession
called interpretation that has many adherents in Hungary. However,
SZDSZ has traditional ties with foreign journalists going back to the
eighties and through organizations that they control.  It is perhaps
not by coincidence that the Hungarian International Press
Association has taken up quarters in the gracious mansion of MUOSZ,
the Hungarian Association of Journalists.

Not only Hungarians think that we are in quite a unique situation.
This is how the Budapest Sun writes in its editorial of December 13:
"Unlike in most of the other former communist countries, Hungary
did not require its communist journalists to step down. Instead, most
of the national and regional newspapers were privatized in the final
days of the last communist government - with the stipulation that
the editorial staffs would not be changed by the new owners. So,
instead of being sent packing for deceiving the public for years, they
were rewarded with pay raises and new job security by the likes of
Bertelsman and other foreign investors. Because they have not been
forced to, the majority of Hungary's journalists have not changed
their ways...In short, very little has changed in Hungarian journalism
since communism."

These journalistic ex-comrades, as you might guess, hated the first
freely elected government. Following 45 years of communism, the
media gave the Antall-government a mere 100 days to show results.
(It is as if the Horn government would have been given 8 days by
the press following 4 years of the previous government, although the
task of the second government is much easier since it did not have to
change the nature of the system.) But they did not wait even that
long.  Overnight, they became ardently pro-welfare, pro-union, pro-
strike, and anti-privatization.  Westerners said that they were doing
it and overdoing it because they were just elated that they had the
freedom to be in opposition. Most Hungarians in the know disagreed.
The ex-totalitarian journalists were advocating all causes and
inventing evil lies that helped racking the work of the government.
After June, 1994, they dropped all the leftist causes and they re-
learnt to savor obedience. By the touch of the magic wand, called
money and power by Hungarians, they have become anti-union, anti-
strike, and pro-privatization and supporting fully the government's
efforts to curtail social and welfare payments. "There is no other
alternative," they wrote. And, as a typically Hungarian media
invention, they discovered the most bellicose type of anti-opposition
journalism.

Take, for instance, Nepszava, the traditional union rag before
privatization. You would not find a day without one or two or even
three editorials or opinion pieces lambasting the opposition.  Today's
issue attacks a fringe party  in opposition that got less than 2 percent
of the votes. Yesterday, it attacked the leader of Fidesz. The day
before yesterday, it fought with the FKGP, and so on. The paper's
owner is a man with a checkered past and just honored in Brussels
for his efforts to create free and independent media in Hungary.
Nepszava's editor-in-chief is Mr. Andras Kereszty who happened to
be one of Kadar's media men in Washington. As you know, people
like Kereszty had to sign a contract prior to their departure which
also listed their duties outside the domain of journalism.  If you want
to get a form of what they signed, please contact Mr. Reed Irvine,
who will certainly let you see a copy.

I am going to dwell on  Mr. Kereszty a bit longer since he is so typical
of the present media bosses in Hungary. His ex-wife is in an
important position at the Hungarian Radio, and his son was, until
recently, the  Paris correspondent of the Radio. Mr. Kereszty also
heads MUOSZ, and he is adored by the foreign press corps in
Hungary. Mr. Kereszty is the one who organizes press conferences for
Mr. Horn each month, and knows how to extend favors to people he
shares interests with.

During the tenure of the previous government, Mr. Kereszty was
instrumental in organizing  fact-finding trips of several journalists
who visited Hungary and found, together with the US Embassy and
the President of Hungary, serious violations of the freedom of the
press. MUOSZ, complaining always of its meager resources,  even had
money to invite  a delegation of the Brussels-based International
Federation of Journalists who came to Hungary in early 1994 to
condemn the Boross-government for "its interference with the
media".  At that time, Freedom House found that the press was free
in Hungary.

When, for the first time since 1990,  you  at Freedom House, changed
the status of Hungary's press freedom to "partly free" during the
Horn-regime, the government and the media in Budapest worked
themselves up to  a frenzy.  They tried their best to explain it away.
They interpreted the results to the effect that they were basically
censorious of the previous regime. Mr. Kereszty himself blamed the
Community of Hungarian Journalists (an organization that split from
MUOSZ after the change in the regime and was given not a penny
from the wealth MUOSZ amassed during  its the totalitarian past) that
its "very lengthy" report written in English and sent to you was the
culprit in degrading Hungary. Incidentally, MTI, the Hungarian News
Agency, although given the original and a translation of the report,
just like many other organizations and journalists, hushed it up. Mr.
Kereszty also said that "Freedom House is the organization of
conservative US forces and the most conservative organization of the
republicans, and, this way, it is understandable that this foundation
feels solidarity with those conservative or ultra-conservative fora
that keep repeating from the time of the Horn-government's election
that there is no freedom of press here. I say that this is laughable..." I
think, Archie, when you read terms such as  "conservative US forces",
"ultra-conservative fora," etc. you immediately recognize the typical
spots on Pravda's cadaver. And you have some doubts about the
sincerity of the transformation of a man who is one of the most
influential persons in the media of the country.

It is interesting how much Kereszty's own paper is aware that you
will, in spite of all the efforts of the government and their media
men, notice what's going on here. A senior editor of the Nepszava
wrote  on July 29 that Freedom House would give next time an even
worse ranking to the freedom of the press in Hungary if the situation
deteriorates from bad to worse, and privatization in the media is
going on like it did in the recent pass. Let me explain what he meant.
I suppose you are the last person to remind  that freedom of the
press requires pluralism which is basically not present any longer in
Hungary.  Mr. Jozsef  Debreczeni, an excellent Hungarian journalist
who has recently returned from  Georgetown University where he
spent 9 months on a fellowship, wrote a brilliant article in the
December 27 issue of Magyar Nemzet called "Farewell to the post-
communist freedom of the press - anyway, whose freedom is it?"
Mr. Debreceni shows clearly - with ample reference to American and
French bills of rights and the  Freedom House report - how freedom
of the press in Hungary has ceased to exist in the sense it exists in
the West. His last sentence said that if Postabank (a bank whose
majority shares are owned by the state), the new owner of Magyar
Nemzet, instituted policies which would censor him, he would stop
writing in the paper.

Hi,
Let us play a little demokracy on Usenet. First, let us start with the 
structure of the FAQ. The current frame of the FAQ can be seen below. 
What are your suggestions, namely, which chapters should be omitted? 
What other information should go to the FAQ? Are there any better 
structuring and categories, that might do a better job on serving 
information about Hungarian resources? After all, what is it that you 
would like others to see about Hungary? Please, go ahead with your oppinion.
Udvozlettel,
Gotthard

--
mailto:

> ========================================================================
     Hungarian electronic resources FAQ

               TABLE OF CONTENTS

1.      News and discussion groups in English
1.1  News from the Open Media Research Institute
1.2  News from Central Europe Today
1.3  The Hungary Report
1.4  Hungary Online List (HOL)
1.5  MOZAIK
1.6  On USENET
1.7  'Hungary', the LISTSERV list
1.8  , the Hungarian-American list

2.      News and discussion groups in Hungarian
2.1  HIX (many groups and services)
2.2  BLA Sajtoszemle [press review]
2.3  "Nemzet" Magyar Internet Vilaglap [Hungarian Internet World Bulletin]
2.4  Other discussion groups

3.      Interactive services
3.1  What's available on the World Wide Web
3.2  Gopher and other interactive services
3.3  ARENA

4.      The Net in Hungary
4.1  BITNET/HUEARN
4.2  HUNGARNET
4.3  FidoNet
4.4  Finding out somebody's email address

5.      Odds and ends
5.1  Traveling with a computer in Hungary
5.2  Conventions for coding Hungarian accents
5.3  Information sources about the rest of Central and Eastern Europe

6.      Contributors to this FAQ

7.      How to read this FAQ - what's in there < ~!@#$%^&* >

"Imre Olajos, Jr." ) writes:

>>
>>The word "lucent" is not in my English-Hungarian 
>>dictionary.  Can someone translate for me, please.
>>

> 
> Guess what? My company was renamed to Lucent Technologies, too! ;)
> 
> I think, the Hungarian fe'nyes or fe'nylo" comes closest to its
> meaning.
> 

I beg to differ. lucent = ragyogo

--
+--------------------------+-------------------------------------+
! Steven Faludi            ! Logic. Love it, or leave it and not !
!  ! leave it.                           !
+--------------------------+-------------------------------------+

Readers might be wandering:
Why is this character Fencsik so dead-set against free flow of news
from Hungary?

Why is a supposedly Hungarian contributor to SCM just a tiny bit
over-eager to butting into issues that are none of his business? Mind
your own business, dear Fencsik. You must have heard this
expression before. Leave it to Bodnar Dani/BLA/Nemzet editors to
work out differences if any - they are all adults. No minors need
apply.

If self-proclaimed Internet  police duty were not enough, Fencsik
goes on ignoring that Hollosi (of HIX) set the very precedent that he
now objects to with the vehemence of outright censorship. Hollosi
lifts SCM stuff day by day and republishes it under his own name in
the net. If this can be done to some parts of SCM by HIX, they can be
the last to object if an other part of SCM here (BLA) is redistributed
likewise. Let's hear Hollosi if cross-posting SCM is fair use - no need
of Moricka here, either.

But of course this is not the real issue.

FREEDOM OF THE PRESS IN HUNGARY (better said, lack of) is the the
real concern that freedom-loving people have much to worry about!

To better understand the creeping censorship and news-suppression,
that has even reached these circles in thin disguise, please study the
following "open letter" to "Freedom House", written by Hungarian
journalist in Budapest,  Mr. Istvan Lovas.

The letter was published in the Hungarian language:

http://www.siliconvalley.com/nemzet/960101.html
http://www.siliconvalley.com/nemzet/960102.html )

(Open letter follows in 5 parts)

To:
ARCH PUDDINGTON
FREEDOM HOUSE
NEW YORK
120 Wall Street, New York,
N.Y. 10005,  U.S.A.

December 30, 1995

Dear Archie:

It has been quite a few years since we have had a chance to talk.
Putting most important things first, I just hope that you, and your
wonderful family, are well and everything is going just fine.

As a subscriber of Commentary, I was very glad to see that you
joined Freedom House.  Considering your uniquely qualified
background and, also, your amazingly detailed knowledge of, and
expertise in, our countries as well,  I think there are not too many
Americans better qualified than you to work for this prestigious
organization.

I have serious grounds for making this letter public.  We, in Hungary,
are in deep trouble, Archie.  And things are getting worse.  An
opinion poll published on December 29 shows that only 3 percent of
the population feel themselves better today than during the previous
government, and 75 % of them feel  that their situation has
deteriorated, and almost all those polled have said that they expect
that 1996 will even be worse for them. Another recent poll shows
that Hungarians think that they were freer during the Antall/Boross
government than presently. The most disturbing polls, however, are
those that show consistently that a clear majority of the population
preferred the Kadar-style communism over democratic capitalism as
it has developed in Hungary. More and more people harbor are anti-
Western and anti-privatization feelings.

There are bad  news in the economy, the political, social, and cultural
life,  and the general health of the population is declining rapidly.
In a regional context, Hungary's economy has been slipping quickly
in the ranking of attractive countries for foreign investors and
businessmen from the first position we had before 1994 to our
present fifth position following the Czech Republic, Poland, Slovenia,
and, recently, Slovakia.

Inflation is, again, over  30 % and it shows no signs at all of relenting.
Unemployment  does not improve, and production grows at a very
slow pace - certainly not enough to keep up with our more successful
neighbors, let alone catching up with the West.  While the
government publishes glowing reports on its own successes, masses
live in Dickensian poverty. Kids, the future assets of Hungary, grow
up in families on a starvation or unhealthy diet. The only
entertainment their parents can afford is watching inane television
programs. They sit in front of the tube in a cramped apartment,
enveloped in smoke, and the father spends his last forints on alcohol
so that he would not think of his or his family's future.  Many
employees get the equivalent of about 90 dollars a month, and the
supermarket prices are just about the same if not higher here than in
the States. Gasoline is three and a half times more expensive, and its
price is rising, raising the price of all goods that have to be delivered.
Just walk  the streets of Budapest, and you see sad, depressed faces.
Take the subway or the streetcar and you see people just staring in
front of them. Almost nobody is reading newspapers or books as
they used to. The scene is much more reminiscent of the silent and
obedient worker ants of Metropolis than of a country that is
supposedly buoyant with its regained freedom and working with
confidence in its future.

On the other side of the fence, there is ostentatious wealth, just like
you would find in a banana republic.  Except that the elite there has
a
much more sophisticated taste because it has tradition. The hatred
between the haves and the have nots is also the same as there.
Bribery  is rampant and spreading.  During  the previous
government, the publication of  any wrongdoing, real or imagined,
was at least big news. Today, nobody pays attention, and the least
concerned are those who are involved in them.    Even some socialists
who are enjoying the fruits of privatization, to put it politely, confess,
in private, that they are disgusted with the shameless deals creaming
off the  wealth of the nation. The Mafia has, according to a police
commissioner specifically dealing with the matter, already
established links with the governing elite. What I am telling you does
not need scholarly quotes. They are of common knowledge in
Hungary and not even the left denies it.

The present coalition, keeping with the traditional philosophy of left-
liberals that they know best how to distribute and allocate funds
centrally, raised taxes to levels that are seen by the population as
extortionist while in the rapidly progressing Czech Republic, the
conservative, center-right government is reducing tax rates.
The old nomenclature is back in every area and everywhere from
large towns to the smallest of  villages. Political and cultural
institutions have been thoroughly purged of all those whose
allegiance is suspected of lying not with the ruling coalition.  From
the Ministry of Foreign Affairs - where the purges have been carried
out  -with a steam roller-, says Mr. Ivan Baba, an undersecretary of
state during the previous government - to public service
broadcasting, the decision makers and even low ranking officers or
journalists are those who have a vested interest in the survival of
the present left-wing coalition. Those who have been spared by the
steam rollers are frightened and toiling silently, let alone
complaining to the press each day and attacking their employers the
most viciously as they were doing when you read the dailies from
1990 to June 1994.
(end of 1/5)

Waan ku jelahay in Somali

Helo,

nem tudom, hogy ki mie´rt bajlo´dik ennyit ezen az SCM a´tszerveze´n.
A jo´zan emberi e´sz csak egy megolda´st ismer:
A "SOC.CULTURE.MAGYAR.LISTINGS"-et.
Mi ebben a gond? Mi ezen a baj? Ma´s a te´ma, e´s ba´rmikor bele´phetek, megne´
zhetem
a lista´kat, stb.
Hogyan kell itt szavazni? Ele´g ennyi:
"Ezennel megszavazom a SOC.CULTURE.MAGYAR.LISTINGS -et!"

Ha nem, ke´rem, szo´ljon valaki.



***************************
http://www.mlbooks.com/pro/
***************************

In article > , 
writes:
>A jo´zan emberi e´sz csak egy megolda´st ismer:
>A "SOC.CULTURE.MAGYAR.LISTINGS"-et.

Biztos vagy te ebben ?

1. A SOC.CULTURE hierarchia listak kozlesere nem  hasznalatos .

Fontos ellenerv ez, hiszen ez alapjan lett a csoportunk neve multkor
megtamadva (az egyik fo erv az volt, SOC.CULTURE hierarchiaban a
nemzetek angol nevet *szokas* hasznalni)

2. A Useneten a listak kozlesenek a helye a BIT.LISTSERV hierarchia.

This one needs no further comment.

Tamas

In article >,
Peter Szaszvari > wrote:
>Kedves Olvasok!
....
>Ebbol nekem ugy tunik, hogy az inkorrektsegrol siro szerzoharmas
>"elfelejtette" masolas elott ertesiteni az eredeti szerzot.
>
>Az en kerdesem: Mi ennek az oka? Ez a szemet viselkedes magyarspecifikus vagy
>csak szimplan "human"?

Szerintem a "szemet" viselkedes szimplan human, bar a panaszkodas, es utana a
semmitteves (ami nem egyenlo a "szemet viselkedessel") az a tapasztalatom
szerint elegge "magyarspecifikus" (avagy: "mindig mas a felelos, a kormany, az
elado...en csak aldozat vagyok" mentalitas).

>A FAQ-sztorihoz mindenkinek aki szereti az emberi "melysegeket" tovabbi jo
>szorakozast kivan: SzP.

Kedves Peter, igazan bravuros megfigyelesek!

En inkabb a Zoli mellett tartok.

Gabor

On 14 Feb 1996  wrote:

> Helo,
>=20
> nem tudom, hogy ki mie=B4rt bajlo=B4dik ennyit ezen az SCM a=B4tszerveze=
=B4n.
> A jo=B4zan emberi e=B4sz csak egy megolda=B4st ismer:
> A "SOC.CULTURE.MAGYAR.LISTINGS"-et.
> Mi ebben a gond? Mi ezen a baj? Ma=B4s a te=B4ma, e=B4s ba=B4rmikor bele=
=B4phetek, megne=B4zhetem
> a lista=B4kat, stb.
> Hogyan kell itt szavazni? Ele=B4g ennyi:
> "Ezennel megszavazom a SOC.CULTURE.MAGYAR.LISTINGS -et!"
>=20
> Ha nem, ke=B4rem, szo=B4ljon valaki.

Hello Angyal,
A soc.culture.magyar.lista talan jobban hangzana.
Egyebkent, tenyleg annyira fontos az scm kettebontasa? Ez nem csak megint=
=20
egy-ket depresszios baratunk otlete, akik a hotol nem jutnak hozza rendes=
=20
napi Prozac adagjukhoz? Avagy, ismet a magyar nev megvaltoztatasara=20
keszul konformista bukott bajnokunk? Ami persze valahol jogos is lehet.=20
Mint ahogy mindnyajan tudjuk, mindazok akik a multkor a magyar nevre=20
szavaztak, meg mindig hisznek a fold korong alakjaban, a csokkal valo=20
teherbe ejtesben. Szinten hiszik hogy az AIDS csak homokosokat ol es hogy=
=20
az e foldon valo ervenyesules egyetlen modja bucsucedulak vasarlasa -=20
persze csak moderalt tartalommal.
Amen,
Gotthard

--
Gotthard Saghi-Szabo =20
Carnegie Institution of Washington, D.C.
mailto:

Archive-name: hungarian/faq
Soc-culture-magyar-archive-name: faq
Last-modified: 1996/02/14
Version: 1.41
Posting-Frequency: every fifteen days

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

     Hungarian electronic resources FAQ

               TABLE OF CONTENTS

1.      News and discussion groups in English
1.1  News from the Open Media Research Institute
1.2  News from Central Europe Today
1.3  The Hungary Report
1.4  Hungary Online List (HOL)
1.5  MOZAIK
1.6  On USENET
1.7  'Hungary', the LISTSERV list 
1.8  , the Hungarian-American list

2.      News and discussion groups in Hungarian
2.1  HIX (many groups and services)
2.2  BLA Sajtoszemle [press review]
2.3  "Nemzet" Magyar Internet Vilaglap [Hungarian Internet World Bulletin]
2.4  Other discussion groups

3.      Interactive services
3.1  What's available on the World Wide Web
3.2  Gopher and other interactive services
3.3  ARENA

4.      The Net in Hungary
4.1  BITNET/HUEARN
4.2  HUNGARNET
4.3  FidoNet
4.4  Finding out somebody's email address

5.      Odds and ends
5.1  Traveling with a computer in Hungary
5.2  Conventions for coding Hungarian accents
5.3  Information sources about the rest of Central and Eastern Europe

6.      Contributors to this FAQ

7.      How to read this FAQ - what's in there < ~!@#$%^&* >

- - - ----------------------------------------------------------------------

 I know this is very long, perhaps too long for human consumption ;-).
One of the tasks for further editing is to make it more concise,
perhaps drop some parts altogether (I'd like to hear any suggestions).
You can search for the section titles listed above and skip what you
don't want, and many Unix newsreaders would jump ahead to the next one
with Ctrl-G (the format now follows the digest specification)!

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 1.  NEWS AND DISCUSSION GROUPS IN ENGLISH

 Note: commercial networks -- such as CompuServe or AOL -- may have
their own in-house forums relating to Eastern and Central Europe. Be
aware that those are only open to the subscribers of the particular
service, unlike the discussion groups accessible by anyone via the
Internet and Usenet! This file -- the hungarian-faq -- is mostly
concerned with resources freely available netwide.
 See also the sections under 2. below which list services that carry
occasional English material, some regularly, besides their primarily
Hungarian language content.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 1.1  News from the Open Media Research Institute

 The Open Media Research Institute Daily Digest is available via
electronic mail, at no charge. The Digest covers all of the former
Soviet Union, East-Central and Southeastern Europe and is delivered in
two parts, each roughly 15 kByte in size, Monday through Friday (except
Czech holidays).

 You can subscribe by sending <mailto:>.
In the body of the message, type
 "SUBSCRIBE OMRI-L Yourfirstname Yourlastname" (leave out the quotation
marks and be sure to substitute your own name where shown).

 You can get reposts of just the items related to Hungary by
subscribing to Mozaik. See section 1.5.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 1.2  News from Central Europe Today

 Central Europe Today On-Line is a free daily news service covering the
important events and business news in the region. To subscribe, send
the word SUBSCRIBE <mailto:>. For more
detailed information, send a blank email message
<mailto:>.

Again, these exceed Hungary in scope, but you can get excerpts
pertaining to Hungary in Mozaik (see 1.4).

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 1.3  The Hungary Report

 The Hungary Report is a free weekly English-language online update of
news and analysis direct from Budapest each Sunday. The Report consists
of briefs, one feature story and an expert political opinion column.
The briefs cover the most important and interesting developments in
Hungary each week, while the feature stories address variously
politics, business, economics, arts and leisure. The weekly political
column, Parliament Watch, is written by Tibor Vidos, director of the
Budapest office of GJW, a British political lobbying and consulting
firm. To subscribe, send
<mailto:> containing (in the body
of the message, not in the headers) the single word "subscribe" (no
quotes).  Or send the word "info" to the same address for further
information.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 1.4  Hungary Online List (HOL)

 This discussion list is a "kind of Internet supplement" to the column
of the same title in Budapest Business Journal; to subscribe, send the
word "subscribe" <mailto:> (you'll get help
from its Majordomo server, if needed).

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 1.5  MOZAIK

 This is actually one of the services of HIX, meaning there's a slight
bit of Hungarian mixed in (the posts themselves are mostly in English,
but the server speaks Hunglish ;-)). MOZAIK brings you original content
(e.g. the schedule of DUNA TV, exchange rates), and digested reposts
of those news items (originating from OMRI, CET and other sources)
that bear directly on Hungary. You can subscribe by
sending a blank email message to <mailto:> and
unsubscribe by sending one to <mailto:>. See
section 3 about searching the HIX archives.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 1.6  On USENET

 The Hungarian newsgroup in the worldwide hierarchy is
<news:soc.culture.magyar>. It's mostly in English, sometimes
bilingual, and occasionally Hungarian only. The group is archived by
HIX (see its section for 'SCM') and is also readable under
<http://hix.mit.edu/usenet/>;. A similar archive is to be found at
<http://mineral.umd.edu/usenet/>; (see 1.8 below). For www/e-mail
gateways see <http://www.siliconvalley.com/nemzetiforum.html>; or the
archives mentioned above.

 Since May 1995 Hungary has its own netnews hierachy, with the following
groups created so far (hun.lists.* are email gateways):
        <news:hun.test>
        <news:hun.news>
        <news:hun.piac>
        <news:hun.comp>
        <news:hun.general>
        <news:hun.lists.hix.forum>
        <news:hun.lists.hix.hunet>
        <news:hun.lists.hix.moka>
        <news:hun.lists.hix.otthonka>
        <news:hun.lists.hix.szalon>
        <news:hun.lists.hix.tipp>
        <news:hun.lists.hix.vita>
        <news:hun.lists.hix.otthon>
        <news:hun.lists.hix.guru>
        <news:hun.lists.hix.kornyesz>
        <news:hun.lists.katalist>

 If you can connect to a remote news server (typically by setting the
NNTPSERVER variable under Unix), then you can get hun.* directly from
news.sztaki.hu or news.iif.hu (the former has been more stable
lately). Fetching articles is much faster from a local source - ask
you system administrator if they can get a feed! In the USA the first
provider offering the hierarchy seems to be AltNet,
<mailto:> to find out about that.  There is a gopher
interface to news: <gopher://mars.iif.hu:70/11/News> (the full URL to
go straight to the hun.* groups is:
<gopher://mars.iif.hu:70/1exec%3A-g%20hun%3A/bin/gonnrp>). 
For accessing groups in the international hierarchy from abroad via
gopher the gateway in the Netherlands may be better:
<gopher://g4nn.cca.vu.nl:4320/1g4nn%20group/soc.culture.magyar>.  The
hun.* groups are also archived by HIX (see its section for 'HUNGROUPS')
and they are also readable under <http://hix.mit.edu/usenet/>; as well
as <http://mineral.umd.edu/usenet/>;.
 HIX provides a universal posting gateway to the soc.culture.magyar and
hun.* newsgroups. Use the addresses:
<mailto:>, for example
<mailto:>. A similar gatewaying service
is also available for soc.culture.magyar via
<mailto:> (see 1.8 below), as well as via
<mailto:> (see also 2.3).

 There are Hungarian local newsgroups available through
<telnet://ludens.elte.hu>, login with username GUEST (no password), and
enter NEWS to start the newsreader (you can use the VMS online help to
learn about it). The guest account is set up for accessing
<news:elte.diaklap> (students' journal at Eotvos U.), but other
newsgroups are available as well. (But please be considerate to the
strained network resources of Hungarian sites - from abroad for
non-local news use other providers.) For ELTE-specific questions
contact <mailto:>. This server is also accessible
via remote NNTP like the two mentioned above, but is often much slower
than those.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 1.7 'Hungary', the LISTSERV list 

  is a discussion group providing rapid communication
among those with interests in Hungarian issues. Subscribe by 
<mailto:> using no subject and a message
consisting only of SUBSCRIBE HUNGARY Yourfirstname Lastname. Once you
have subscribed, any messages which you want to send to the group
should be sent to the group address, <mailto:>.
(This pattern of two addresses is standard: you turn your mail off and
on at the "listserv" address, and you send mail to the listname
address. For example, to  unsubscribe, send the server the message
SIGNOFF HUNGARY. You can temporarily turn off you mail by sending
listserv the message SET HUNGARY NOMAIL. SET HUNGARY MAIL turns mail
back on.) By default the listserv sends out messages as they arrive,
maybe several ones on busier days. If you prefer daily digest format,
you can issue the command SET HUNGARY DIGESTS (again by sending it to
the LISTSERV address); alternatively you can subscribe to HUNGARY via
HIX as mentioned in 2.1, and receive the same format as the other lists
by HIX. LISTSERV has many useful features, most notably database search
on the list archives - to learn more about it, send commands like SEND
HELP, SEND HELP DATABASE.

 Note that the form of addressing LISTSERV lists such as Hungary may
depend a great deal on your local network configuration and mailer
software. For BITNET mailers you need GWUVM only; the local gatewaying
to BITNET may be BITNET% for VAXMail installations and
 at other places. Ask your local network
administrator first if you're experiencing problems.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 1.8  , the Hungarian-American list

 The Hungarian-American List is an unmoderated discussion forum to
promote communications between people with interest in modern Hungarian
culture and Hungarian cultural heritage. The list brings you, among
other things, news items originating from OMRI, CET, the Hungarian
media and several other sources, that might be of interest for
Hungarians and Americans. The WWW Home Page of the Hungarian-American
list is <http://mineral.umd.edu/hungary/>;. Subscribe by
<mailto:>, using no subject and a message
consisting only of SUBSCRIBE HUNGARY. The Hungarian Usenet group -
soc.culture.magyar is available for Hungarian-American List subscribers
via email. You can subscribe to this news-to-mail-to-news service by
<mailto:>, using no Subject, in the body of the
letter write SUBSCRIBE SOC-CULTURE-MAGYAR. The WWW address of the
interactive soc.culture.magyar archive is
<http://mineral.umd.edu/soc.culture.magyar/>;.

 (Notice that this Maryland-based list is distinct from the older
LISTSERV list mentioned in 1.7 that has a broader focus - mentioning
'the HUNGARY list' ususally refers to that latter one! Note also that
the Majordomo server syntax is different from LISTSERV for many of
their commands - see the help document sent by the server.)

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 2.  NEWS AND DISCUSSION GROUPS IN HUNGARIAN

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 2.1  HIX

 HIX, or Hollosi Information eXchange, is a non-profit formation run
and supported by several individuals and organizations. HIX was started
in 1989/90 and now it reaches more than 10,000 readers in about 45 countries
around the World.

Its services, mostly in Hungarian, are abundant and change frequently, so
it is best to obtain an up-to-date help file by sending an email message to
<mailto:> (a recent copy of that also seems to be in
<http://hix.mit.edu/hix/hixcore/senddoc/MAIN/HELP.ALL>; - but please
notice that there are superseded copies scattered in other parts in
the archive on the one hand, and many of the other files in this same
directory are outdated on the other hand; most notably, DO NOT TOUCH
that ancient version of hungarian-faq found there!). Here's a list of
what it currently offers in email digest format:

 HIR      -- 'Hirmondo', current newspaper survey edited in Budapest
 NARANCS  -- The Internet edition of the 'Magyar Narancs' weekly
 TIPP     -- politics-free questions, tips etc.
 SZALON   -- moderated political discussion forum
 FORUM    -- unmoderated political discussion forum
 GURU     -- computer-related questions
 RANDI    -- moderated personals; anonymous submissions possible
 VITA     -- moderated non-political discussion forum
 OTTHON   -- issues around the home
 MOKA     -- jokes, humor (Hungarian and other)
 MOZAIK   -- semi-regular bits of news and other info, mostly in
	     English, crossposts from the OMRI list, VoA gopher, CET
	     and other sources
 HUNGARY  -- daily digest of the Hungary LISTSERV list (see 1.7)
 SCM      -- gatewayed email digest of the Usenet newsgroup
             soc.culture.magyar 

 The following is not available for email subscription from
Hungary, but are accessible via the SENDDOC interface (or the
'finger ' service for the latest issues):
 HUNGROUPS - gatewayed email digest of the hun.* regional newsgroups

 Note that KEP (transcripts from the videotext news from Hungarian
Television's Kepujsag) has been suspended indefinitely - despite what
HIX' own HELP says.

 To subscribe (unsubscribe) to a particular email-journal, send email
to  ) where NAME is one of the
above.

 The postings for the HIX discussion lists are sent out daily in
digested form. You can send your own submission to ,
whatever NAME is (provided it's actually a discussion list).

 The volume for some of these lists is becoming rather high, e.g. TIPP
often digests dozens of messages in hundreds of lines daily!  You ought
to try targeting your audience properly in order to find those who'd
help with your questions; also keep in mind that readers often answer
to the list rather than the individual even when personal reply is
requested, so if you ask something it's a good idea to subscribe also
(even though technically it's not required) instead of just addressing
a list as a non-subscriber. A reminder to those who reply to a post:
always remember that list messages get sent to several thousand readers,
so consider personal email if the subject is not of general interest!
If you answer through a list it's courteous to send a personal copy
(Cc: with most mailers) as well - this may reach the addressee
considerably earlier than the post distributed through the list.
 Notice the (undocumented) feature of the HIX mail-server: it only
accepts submissions if its address is found in the 'To:' header field!
It would quietly ignore incoming email Cc-d to it, so do not put the
 in the 'Cc:' (you can do so with other addressees).

 The HIX server can also send out archived files, see the SENDDOC
function in its description. In case you have any problems or questions
on the HIX services, please read through the automatic help response
first. If you need human intervention you can reach
<mailto:> - but keep in mind that list managers have
to do plenty other than answering things already laid out in the Fine
Manual.

 You can also view the output of HIX interactively. See section 3.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 2.2  BLA Sajtoszemle

 Daily selection of articles from leading Hungarian newspapers by
the Lajos Batthyany Foundation, published by the Hungary.Network.
 
 To subscribe (unsubscribe), send email to <mailto:>
(<mailto:>). Also available in 123 accent notations
from the <mailto:> address.

 It is also readable on the WWW under <http://www.hungary.com/bla/sajto/>;.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 2.3  Nemzet Magyar Internet Vilaglap [Hungarian Internet World Bulleti
n]

 [This section is as provided by <mailto:>]

(1) (E-mail news bulletins)
        "Nemzet" Magyar Internet Vilaglap
        E-mail news digest, Mon-Fri, 25-55k. Comprises East-European
        regional news (by OMRI, in English), excerpts from Hungarian
        press (in Hungarian), and reports on newsworthy items (press,
        events, etc., mostly in Hungarian and occasionally in English)

        Subscription/Unsubscription:
        
        
        www:  http://www.siliconvalley.com/nemzet.html

        Publisher and Editor in Chief: 

(2) (usenet e-mail digest)
        "Nemzetiforum"
        Digest of "Soc.Culture.Magyar" by means of e-mail bulletin, filtering
        out all lists and postings beyond size 8k.

        Subscription/Unsubscription:
        
        
        www: http://www.siliconvalley.com/nemzetiforum.html

        Publisher and Editor in Chief: 

(3) (www/e-mail gateway)
        E-mail message is acknowledged and posted to "Soc.Culture.Magyar",
        with your address and your subject-definition.
        Simply send contributions to  

        Gateway maintained under direction of:


(5) Hungarian Papers on WWW (liberal to conservative)

        (a)     168 ORA
                http://www.atm.com.pl/COM/xlori/168/ora.html

        (b)     KELET-MAGYARORSZAG
                http://www.bgytf.hu/public/keletm/

        (c)     UJVIDEKI NAPLO
                http://www.mediarange.com/media/huncor/organ/naplo/naplo.htm

        (d)     DEMOKRATA
                http://www.siliconvalley.com/demokrata/

        (e)     NEMZET
                http://www.siliconvalley.com/nemzet.html

        (f)     MAGYAR ELET

http://www.mediarange.com/media/huncor/organ/magyarel/hunlife.htm

        (g)     24. ORA
                http://www.infobahnos.com/~jtoth/


- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 2.4  Other discussion groups in Hungarian

 A number of email lists are available from servers located in Hungary,
for directory see <gopher://HUEARN.sztaki.hu>. There are many college
publications available online as well, check out the links from the HU
homepage (see below).

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 3. INTERACTIVE SERVICES

 If you are using Hungarian interactive services from abroad (or vice
versa): please note that interactive Internet connections like gopher
may be very slow, even timing out during peak hours - try times of
lower network load when the response time is usually reasonable.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 3.1  What's available on the World Wide Web

 This document you are reading now is hosted at
<http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/hungarian-faq>;, and its directory
has a few other documents and several links to other sites of
interest.

 The Hungarian Home Page is at
<http://www.fsz.bme.hu/hungary/homepage.html>; with links to the
registered Hungarian www servers, including

     - the Prime Minister's Office:  <http://www.meh.hu>; (overseas users
    please notice that the use of the <http://www.hungary.com/meh/>;
    mirror is requested to cut down transatlantic traffic!)

     - a weather forecast page (this is updated daily, and includes weather
    forecasts, meteorological maps, and METEOSAT satellite images; this
    page is in Hungarian)

     - home pages of Hungarian cities (currently Budapest, Debrecen,
    Miskolc, Pecs, Szeged), and of educational and other institutions 

     - a comprehensive list of Hungarian telnet services (e.g. library 
    databases), gopher and ftp sites (3.2). The content of almost all the 
    Hungarian FTP sites is indexed and can be searched.

 The Hungary Online Directory (HUDIR) is at
<http://www.hungary.com/hudir/>; featuring a hierarchical
database of Hungarian online content worldwide. Currently it has links
in excess of 2500.

 HIX has a WWW server in the USA: the URL is <http://hix.mit.edu>;.
To check out fresh content, see <http://hix.mit.edu/friss2/>;, which
gives you a comprehensive table of content for new material arrived in
the last 24 hours (which is typically in the order of 100-150 pages).
Besides back issues of its email journals, and a plethora of other
files in Hungarian and English, it offers an on-line English-Hungarian,
Hungarian-English dictionary (<http://hix.mit.edu/hix/szotar/>; - its
European mirror is at <http://tpri6l.gsi.de/szotar.html>;), and various
home pages and pointers to other sources. Partial mirrors located in
Hungary are <http://www.eunet.hu/eunet/hix/>; (for the Magyar Narancs
archive), and <http://hal9000.elte.hu/hix/>; (for some pictures, and
searching the Radir database - see below).

 Hungary.Network - The GateWWWay to Hungary at
<http://www.hungary.com/>; has a number of government, commercial and
organizational users listed.

 TourInform is at <http://www.hungary.com/tourinform/>; is the service
of the Hungarian Tourism Service, the official promotion agency of the
Hungarian Tourist Board. They offer practical information, maps,
broshures and even tours on video casette.

 The Open Media Research Institute has a WWW server, available at
<http://www.omri.cz>;.  Available at this Web site are all back issues
of the Daily Digest, tables of contents for Transition, OMRI's
bi-weekly analytical journal, and information about OMRI's activities
and staff.

 The World Wide Web server of Central Europe Today is at the URL
<http://www.eunet.cz>;.

 Find back issues of the Hungary Report on the World Wide Web at 
<http://www.yak.net/hungary-report/>; or <http://www.isys.hu/hol>;. 
The Hungary-Online archive is available from 
<http://www.yak.net/hungary-online/>; or <http://www.isys.hu/hrep>; 
as well.

 There is a growing Hungarian resource directory at
<http://mineral.umd.edu/hir/>;. [The same server also hosts a
"Hungarian Electronic Resources FAQ" <http://mineral.umd.edu/faq/>;.]

 There is a "Foreign Languages for Travellers" collection of essential
Hungarian expressions with English, German and French explanation,
complete with sound at
<http://insti.physics.sunysb.edu/~mmartin/languages/hungarian/hungarian.html>;.

 The American Association of Young Hungarians (AAYH) has its homepage
at <http://www.aayh.org/>;.

 A Hungarian church in Chicago has info at
 <http://users.aol.com/MikeC16958/>;.

 The Gyorgy Bessenyei Teachers Training College (Nyiregyhaza) offers 
some 3000 pages worth of database for Szabolcs-Szatmar-Bereg county 
(Eastern Hungary) as well as other goodies and general Internet help,
in both Hungarian and English: <http://www.bgytf.hu/>;.

 See also section 2.3 above, which covers
<http://www.siliconvalley.com/>; and refers to other links as well.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 3.2  Gopher and other interactive services

 HIX has a server in the USA: <gopher://hix.mit.edu>. Its services
form just a subset of what it offers as a WWW site. RaDir is sometimes
useful for finding email-addresses, old or new friends on the Net. See
also Section 4.4.

 HIX has a gopher in Hungary as well:
<gopher://hix.elte.hu/11/HIX/HIX>, and another mirror at
<gopher://gopher.bke.hu:71/11/hix> (notice that this latter uses a
non-standard Gopher port number). Check also <gopher://gopher.elte.hu>
and <gopher://gopher.sztaki.hu>. Note that gopher is essentially
text-based (thus less satisfying than the Web) but often faster
(therefore less frustrating).

 CET's gopher is called <gopher://gopher.eunet.cz>.

 HIX documents from the archives of hix.mit.edu are available via the
(Unix) 'finger' protocol. Try 'finger ' to see how it
works.  This may be the easiest and fastest access from some sites.

 There is an electronic library at
<gopher://gopher.bke.hu:71/11/elibhu/> (notice the non-standard port)
that has much Hungarian text material, including some classical
poetry.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 3.3  ARENA

 An interactive chat service of HIX, run by the Hungary.Network.
Similar to IRC, but it does NOT require any client software. Simply
<telnet:hix.hungary.com> and you are there.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 4. THE NET IN HUNGARY

 Overview: historically, ELLA was the first home-grown X.25
email-system in Hungary. It survives till this very day. EARN was next,
with its BITNET-like infrastructure (4.1). Full Internet connectivity
is provided by HUNGARNET (see 4.2), which really comprises all
academic, research and public non-profit sites.

 Here's a partial list of its domain names:

bme.hu          Technical University of Budapest
sztaki.hu       Computer and Automation Research Institute, Budapest 
elte.hu         Roland Eotvos University of Sciences, Budapest
bke.hu          Budapest University of Economic Sciences
sote.hu         Semmelweis University of Medical Sciences, Budapest
abc.hu          Agricultural Biotechnology Center, Godollo 
gau.hu          Godollo Agricultural University, Godollo
klte.hu         Kossuth Lajos University of Sciences, Debrecen
jpte.hu         Janus Pannonius University of Sciences, Pecs
u-szeged.hu     Members of the Szeged University Association
bgytf.hu        Gyorgy Bessenyei Teachers Training College
uni-miskolc.hu  University of Miskolc
kfki.hu         Central research Inst. of Physics, Budapest 
vein.hu         University of Veszprem, Veszprem
bdtf.hu         Berzsenyi College, Szombathely
szif.hu         Szechenyi Istvan College, Gyor
blki.hu         Balaton Limnological Res. Inst. of Hung. Acad. Sci.

A schematic map of its topology ('HBONE'):

EBONE    EMPB                          EMPB   EBONE

  ^       ^                             ^       ^
  |       |                             |       |
  |       |   Microwave center ======= IIF Center ------- Miskolci Egyetem
  |       |      Budapest            /   Budapest            Miskolc
  |       |    //  ||    \\         /   //   |
  |       |   //   ||     MTA-KFKI /   //    L--------------- BGYTF
  |       |  //   MBK     Budapest    //     |             Nyiregyhaza
  |       | //   Godollo             //      |
  |      BME              MTA-SzTAKI//       L--------------- KLTE
  |    Budapest ########## Budapest          |              Debrecen
  |      ***                                 |
  |      ***                                 L--------------- GAMF
  L------BKE                                 |              Kecskemet
       Budapest                              |
          #    \                             L---------- Veszpremi Egyetem
          #     \                            |              Veszprem
         ELTE    \                           |
       Budapest   JATE                       L--------------- JPTE
                 Szeged                                       Pecs

 LEGEND

 ***  100 Mbps FDDI
  #    10 Mbps optical cable (Ethernet)
  =     2 Mbps microwave
  |    64 kbps leased line (that's 0.064 Mbps)

Source: HUNGARNET/NIIF (URL <http://www.iif.hu/hungarnet.html>;)

 FidoNet is described in section 4.3, and commercial
networks/email/Internet Providers demand a separate document
('commercial.FAQ'), also see <http://www.sztaki.hu/providers/>;.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 4.1  BITNET/HUEARN

 What follows is a listing of all EARN nodes in Hungary, with contact
info.  This information is also available on the following gopher:
	 <gopher://cc1.kuleuven.ac.be/11/nodeearn/hungary.helpnode>.

HUBIIF11 IIF Department Budapest, Hungary                                      
      IIF;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest
      Internet address : hubiif11.sztaki.hu                   
      User Info: Sandor ;+36 1 1497984                
      Fax : +36 1 1297866             

HUBIIF61 IIF Department Budapest, Hungary                                    
      IIF;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest
      Internet address : mars.iif.hu                          
      User Info: Istvan ;+36 1 1665644
      Fax : +36 1 1297866             

HUBME11  Technical University of Budapest
     Technical University;of Budapest;Muegyetem rkp 9. R. ep;H-1111
     Budapest, Hungary           
     Internet address : atlantis.bme.hu                      
     User Info: Sandor ;+36 1 4632422               
     Fax : +36 1 1665711             

HUBME51  Technical University of Budapest                                  
     Technical University;Muegytem Rakpart 9;H-1111 Budapest               
     Internet address : bmeik.eik.bme.hu                     
     User Info: Laszlo ;+36 1 1812172                 
     Phone : +36 1 1812172            ; Fax : +36 1 1166711             

HUBPSZ12 Computer and Automation Institute Budapest, Hungary                  
     Computer and Automation Inst;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor
     Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest
     Internet address : hubpsz12.sztaki.hu                   ;
     User Info: Sandor ;+36 1 1497984                
     Phone : +36 1 1497984            ; Fax : +36 1 1297866             

HUBPSZ61 Computer and Automation Institute Budapest, Hungary
     Computer and Automation Inst;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor
     Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest
     Net Operator: Sandor ;+36 1 1497986             

HUBPSZ62 Computer and Automation Institute Budapest, Hungary                
     Computer and Automation Inst;Hungarian Academy of
     Sciences;Lagymanyosi ut 11;1111 Budapest
     Net Operator: Sandor ;+36 1 1497986             
     Phone : +36 1 2698283            ; Fax : +36 1 2698288             

HUEARN   Computer and Automation Institute Budapest, Hungary               
     Computer and Automation Inst;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor
     Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest
     Internet address : huearn.sztaki.hu                     ;
     User Info: Miklos ;+36 1 2698286                   
     Phone : +36 1 2698283            ; Fax : +36 1 2698288             

HUECO    University of Economic Sciences Budapest, Hungary                 
     University of Economic Sci;Computer Center;Kinizsi u 1-7;1092 Budapest
     Internet address : ursus.bke.hu                         ;
     User Info: Robert ;+36 1 1175224                    
     Phone : +36 1 1181317            ; Fax : +36 1 1175224             

HUELLA   Computer and Automation Institute Budapest, Hungary           
     Computer and Automation Inst;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor
     Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest
     Node admin: Gizella ;+36 1 1497986                
     Phone : +36 1 1497984            ; Fax : +36 1 1297866             

HUGBOX   Computer and Automation Institute Budapest, Hungary            
     Computer and Automation Inst;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor
     Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest
     Internet address : hugbox.sztaki.hu                    ;
     User Info: Miklos ;+36 1 1497532                
     Phone : +36 1 1497532            ; Fax : +36 1 1297866             

HUGIRK51 University of Agriculture Sciences
     University of Agriculture;Pater Karoly ut 1;H-2103 Godollo
     Internet address : vax.gau.hu                           ;
     User Info: Zoltan ;+36 28 30200 -1015              
     Phone : +36 28 30200 -1015       ; Fax : +36 28 20804              

HUKLTEDR Kossuth Lajos University Debrecen, Hungary                       
     Internet address : dragon.klte.hu                       ;
     User Info: Robert                           

HUKLTE51 Kossuth Lajos University, Debrecen                                 
     Kossuth Lajos University;Egyetem Ter 1; PF. 58;H-4010 Debrecen        
     Internet address : huni7.cic.klte.hu                    ;
     User Info: Zoltan ;+36 52 18800                      
     Phone : +36 52 18800             ; Fax : +36 52 16783              

HUSOTE51 University of Medical Science Budapest, Hungary                   
     University of Medical Science;SOTE;Ulloi u. 26.;1085 Budapest         
     Internet address : janus.sote.hu                        ;
     User Info: Gabor ;+36 1 1141705                 
     Phone : +36 1 1141705            ; Fax : +36 1 1297866

HUSZEG11 Jozsef Attila University, Szeged, Hungary                         
     Jozsef Attila University;Computer Centre;Arpad ter 2.;H-6720
     Szeged;Hungary                
     User Info: Ferenc ;+36 62 321022
     Miklos ;+36  
     Phone : +36 62 321022            ; Fax : +36 62 322227             

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 4.2  HUNGARIAN ACADEMIC AND RESEARCH NETWORK (HUNGARNET)

 This information is also available on
<http://www.ripe.net/ripe/hungarnet.html>;.

Organisational Structure: 
 HUNGARNET is an association and also the computer network of Hungarian
institutes of higher education, research and development, libraries and
other public collections. HUNGARNET funding comes from the R&D
Information Infrastructure Program (IIF) sponsored by the Hungarian
Academy of Science, the National Committee of Technological
Development, the Ministry for Culture and Education and the National
Science Foundation. About 500 organizations have access to HUNGARNET
services. HUNGARNET as an association represents Hungary in
international networking organizations (e.g. TERENA).

Generic Services:
 HUNGARNET provides access to the Internet and several other national
network services over leased lines and the public packet switched data
network. Lot of different services (e.g. gopher, ftp, WWW, data bases)
provided by member organizations are available on the net. Centrally
supported and coordinated services are:
 - email (internet SMPT, EARN BSMTP, OSI X.400, UUCP, XXX ELLA) 
 - email gateways between the different email systems above 
 - distribution services (LISTSERV, news) 
 - information services (ftp, gopher, WWW servers, data bases) 
 - directory services (X.500) 
 - individual accounts and login

External Connectivity:  
 HUNGARNET is subscriber to EBONE and EMPB/EuropaNET as well. There are
two 64 kbps leased lines to EBONE (Vienna EBS). These two lines should
be upgraded to a single 256 kbps line in the near future.  HUNGARNET
uses two 64 kbps interfaces on the EMPB/EuropaNET node in Budapest as
well. These two interfaces should also be upgraded to a single 256 kbps
interface very soon.

Internal Connectivity: 
 Internal connectivity of HUNGARNET is based partly on the public X.25
service of the Hungarian PTT and partly on the community's private IP
backbone network (HBONE). The kernel of the HBONE infrastructure is in
Budapest, where several important organizations are connected in
different ways (64-256 kbps leased lines, 1-2 Mbps microwave links, 10
Mbps optical Ethernet, 100 Mbps FDDI). Several cities (regional
centers) in the country are also connected to the network via 64 kbps
leased lines (Miskolc, Nyiregyhaza, Debrecen, Kecskemet, Szeged, Pecs,
Veszprem) and 2 Mbps microwave (Godollo). Now there are about 50
organizations directly connected to the backbone and about 50 others
using IP over X.25. The number of the registered, connected hosts is
about ten thousand. There is an ongoing development, new regional
centers (Kaposvar, Keszthely, Szombathely, Sopron, Gyor) and several
organizations in Budapest will be connected subsequently.  Many users
do not have IP connectivity yet but are connected to the public X.25
network. There are several services (e.g. individual login, mail,
gopher, news) that are open for traditional XXX/X.25 access.

Contact Persons:
Miklos NAGY <mailto:> - head of the HUNGARNET/IIF 
					coordination office
Laszlo CSABA <mailto:> - HUNGARNET/IIF technical director
Balazs MARTOS <mailto:> - HBONE project manager
Nandor HORVATH <mailto:> - Local Internet Registry, 
				.hu top level domain contact
IP address and domain administration: <mailto:> 
Network management: <mailto:>

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 4.3  FidoNet

 FidoNet connects through sztaki.hu, as indicated above.

 There are three FidoNet nodes: Budapest NET (2:371/0); West Hungary
Net (2:372/0); and Tisza NET (2:370/0). If you want to write on the
FidoNet, chances are you already know how. *PLEASE* find out what you
are about to do instead of experimenting with the Hungarian net - don't
add to the problems for the folks in Hungary having to deal with the
underdeveloped phone system and outrageous international tolls ;-<. For
further information I post a Fido-sheet separately from this FAQ, where
there are also telephone numbers and further addresses, but again: try
to verify that you are mailing to a valid address (the BBS situation
may have changed since the copy you are reading got updated - look for
current FIDO listing on the net, or better yet contact the person you
want to reach by other means first)!. If you can send Internet email
and have the FidoNet address, you can write to it by transforming it to
appropriate .FIDONET.ORG format.

 Fidonet mail works with Hungarian BBS's but you have to know whom to
reach. I will attempt to maintain a separate Fido posting to Usenet;
please try to make sure you email to a valid address and in particular
avoid using outdated sources on Hungarian BBS's (otherwise your
misdirected trial will burden the Hungarian network coordinator!).

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 4.4  Finding out somebody's email-address in Hungary

 The bigger academic domains have on-line directories (CSO phonebooks):

Technical University, Budapest
      gopher://goliat.eik.bme.hu/11/engl/tel-adat/hazi-tele

Budapest University of Economic Sciences*
      gopher://URSUS.BKE.HU:71/11/kozgaz/telefon
(*under construction)

Semmelweis University of Medical Sciences, Budapest
      <gopher://xenia.sote.hu:105/2>

Central Research Inst. of Physics, Budapest
      <gopher://sunserv.kfki.hu:105/2>

Members of the Szeged University Association
      <gopher://sol.cc.u-szeged.hu:105/2>

Janus Pannonius University of Sciences, Pecs
      <gopher://ipiux.jpte.hu:1051/2>
	<http://ipisun.jpte.hu/cgi-bin/ph.pl>;

University of Veszprem
      <gopher://miat0.vein.hu:105/2>

 ELLA also has an on-line directory: <telnet://hugbox.sztaki.hu:203>
(i.e. address a special port). Note that the opening screen uses
special characters for the accented letters but the data records have
combinations of vowel plus ',: or " instead (i.e. searching for
hollo'si would retrieve a record, but hollosi won't)!

 If the person has registered him/herself with the RaDir database of
HIX, you might try the following (note, however, that most parts of
RaDir are badly out of date):

 - by <gopher://hix.mit.edu/11/HIX/radir> (a link to the same is
offered by <http://hix.mit.edu/hix/>; on the World Wide Web); from
inside Hungary use <gopher://hix.elte.hu/11/HIX/HIX/radir>, or
<http://hal9000.elte.hu/hix/radir.html>; (this last one is a true HTML
search form)). Under RaDir, you'll find the entire database
cross-indexed by search keys.

 - by 'finger +whois:"SEARCHWORD"@hix.mit.edu' you can look up records
containing "SEARCHWORD" string in the database

 - by email: send a blank message <mailto:>. You'll
receive, in several chunks, the entire database of users, their
electronic and snail-mail addresses, etc. You'll need a decent editor
to search what you're looking for.

 If you have some idea what institution to check at, you may find an
online directory service -- many are available, and could be reached
through the Hungarian gophers (or WWW sites) mentioned in section 3.
Try contacting the (electronic) postmaster, usually
, or using 'finger' to inquire about users.

 As a last resort, send in your query to a discussion group. Readers of
<news:soc.culture.magyar>, <mailto:> discussion
list (section 1.7), or some HIX-list (<mailto:> in
particular, see 2.1) may be able to help. Be aware, though, that most
participants are located abroad - especially in the case of the Usenet
group!

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 5.  ODDS AND ENDS

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 5.1  Traveling with a computer in Hungary

 The electricity is 220 V, 50 Hz. The frequency, in fact, fluctuates a
lot, but it doesn't cause any problem when operating computer devices.
(Don't trust too much your plug-in clock radios though.) If you are
from any country running on 110 V or around, due to complications in
voltage conversion, a battery driven laptop or notebook is your best
bet. However, if you decide to take your desktop system, printer, etc.,
you  have a good chance that the device can also be operated on 220 V.
Check it first before you go through unnecessary trouble. If not, you
have to apply 220 V to 110 V AC converters (you might need more than
one; check the power ratings of your devices & converters). WARNING!
Your converters should be designed for *electronic/motorized devices*.
Refuse any converter for *heating appliances* even if its power rating
is much higher! These converters are not real transformers, and can
cause major damages to your electronic devices.

 Also make sure you are able to connect to the Hungarian grounded power
outlet, because that's what's recommended for your appliances.
Therefore you should try to find grounded plug adapters and/or voltage
converters.  Connecting to ungrounded outlets causes possibly no harm,
but for your own & your devices' safety grounded connections should be
preferred.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 5.2  Conventions & standards for coding Hungarian accents

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 5.2.0 Introduction & section overview  

 During the evolution of teletypes and computers, two character tables
survived, acquiring major importance in later computer systems. One is
EBCDIC, primarily used in ancient IBM mainframes. The other one, ASCII,
can be considered today's ubiquitous standard in computing worldwide.
The rest of this section, therefore, pays attention to ASCII code, very
unfairly ignoring EBCDIC, since none of the accent conversion programs
support neither this code table nor the CMS environment.

 Since the language of computing has been English from the beginning,
the original ASCII table was limited to the characters used in English:
letters of the Latin alphabet, a few punctuation marks and some other
special symbols. Since the number of all these characters, plus the
unprintable "control" characters (located in the first 32 positions of
the ASCII table, responsible for different control functions) doesn't
exceed 128, the real 'brilliant' idea of representing the ASCII table
in 7 bits spread like wild fire all over the computer world. No wonder,
that most of the Internet mailers and Usenet hubs are also set up to
forward documents in 7-bit ASCII only.  (Read the rest of the section
carefully to learn how to overcome these problems.) As computing and
word processing started to rise up in the rest of the world, there was
an increasing demand to represent these national characters as well. (A
good example is Hungarian. The extra consonants [nonexistent in
English] are formed by merely juxtaposing 2 (or 3 in case of dzs)
regular Latin characters; so there is no problem here.  However, the
special vowels of the language are denoted by applying different
accents on the Latin 'base-vowel', introducing new characters, the so
called accented vowels.) It's an obvious idea to place these national
characters and other fancy symbols utilizing codes 128 to 255, still
remaining within the byte limit. Different character sets have been
created by defining purpose- or language-specific characters for the
upper half of the table, while keeping the 7-bit ASCII codes unchanged.
(Note:  Some character sets also re-use codes between 0 and 31, the
domain of ASCII control characters, keeping some, or none of them.
Using these codes, however, is pretty difficult, device- and
implementation-dependent, etc.  Therefore it wouldn't be wise to put
accented characters here, but fortunately none of the sets listed below
did it actually.) Hopefully Unicode will ultimately stop this
confusion, but until then there's a long long way to go.

At this point let's clarify the terminology:

... ASCII (also 7-bit or plain ASCII) data:
Usually text (but not necessarily, see 5.2.5.1.), containing only 7-bit
ASCII characters, including the control ones.
... 8-bit (extended) ASCII data:
Text containing the uniform 7-bit ASCII characters, plus special
characters (with code greater than 127) according to one of the 8-bit
character sets.
... Binary data:
Non-text data (executables, pictures, etc.) containing any 8-bit value.

 The different kludges accepted by Internet users to denote accented
vowels in 7-bit ASCII are described in 5.2.1. The most important
extended ASCII character sets are introduced in 5.2.2. 5.2.3 shows the
accented character representations used by high-level formatting
languages. The correct ways of transferring files among word processor
[on the Net] are detailed in 5.2.4. If the data to be transferred is
not 7-bit ASCII, 5.2.5 tells you what to do. Last, but not least, 5.2.6
introduces the programs in the HIX archives (and mentions some others)
that address the problem of conversion between the various types of
accent representation.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 5.2.1 House rules for plain (7-bit) ASCII

 If you are limited to the use of 7-bit ASCII, you have essentially the
following choices to deal with the accented characters:

5.2.1.0 No accent marks at all

 Simple and sure-fire. In fact, the most common 'solution'.

5.2.1.1 The '~" coding (also called "marking notation" or "Babai-code")
        [Sometimes nicknamed as _repu~lo"_.]

 Here's a sample:

         O~t hu"to"ha'zbo'l ke'rtu~nk szi'nhu'st
         a'rvi'ztu"ro" tu~ko~rfu'ro'ge'p
         O~t sze'p szu"zla'ny o"ru~lt i'ro't nyu'z

or, in the alternative ':" _repu:lo"_ format:

         O:t hu"to"ha'zbo'l ke'rtu:nk szi'nhu'st
         a'rvi'ztu"ro" tu:ko:rfu'ro'ge'p
         O:t sze'p szu"zla'ny o"ru:lt i'ro't nyu'z

 Quite readable, though a bit tricky to disambiguate mechanically:
remember, the " or : or ' may also serve as punctuation marks. (This
problem can be handled using Maxent's escaping capabilities, see
5.2.6.6.)

Warning! Don't get confused: in TeX (see 5.2.3.1) " denotes umlaut!

5.2.1.2 The 123 coding (also "numerical notation" or "Pro1sze1ky-code")

 Here's the same text:

         O2t hu3to3ha1zbo1l ke1rtu2nk szi1nhu1st
         a1rvi1ztu3ro3 tu2ko2rfu1ro1ge1p
         O2t sze1p szu3zla1ny o3ru2lt i1ro1t nyu1z

 The only one that's both short and unambiguous, though it takes some
getting used to. 1 stands for the stroke, 2 for the short umlaut, 3 for
the 'Hungarian' or long umlaut (double acute). Very easily converted to
other formats. (Also can be ambiguous, though with much smaller
probability. E.g. U2, CO2, , etc.)

5.2.1.3 Telegraphic style. For example,

         Oet huetoehaazbool keertuenk sziinhuust
         aarviiztueroe tuekoerfuuroogeep
         Oet szeep szuezlaany oeruelt iiroot nyuuz

 Avoid it like the plague because

1. It's ambiguous. (Think of Goethe, Oetker, Eoersi, Csooori, poeen.) 
2. Coding of o" & u" (o3 & u3) is not consistent:
   u3 = ue (fallback to u2), uue, uee, ueue
3. Absolutely not a pleasure to read.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 5.2.2 Fancy 8-bit character sets (extended ASCII)

 The following rollcall lists the most important character sets
supported by the majority of hardware and software, including the
accent conversion programs. The available Hungarian accented characters
are detailed for each set.

Notes: 

 Henceforth when referring to an accented character, the numerical
(Pro1sze1ki) notation will be used to maintain clarity.


5.2.2.1 PC-codepages

(*) PC-437: Hardware

 The basic hardware character set of PC-compatible systems. Since it
was supposed to contain many symbols (line drawing characters, some
Greek letters, etc.), and be general, it's pretty poor in terms of
accented characters. Missing Hungarian vowels: o3, u3 [substitute them
with o^ & u^], A1 [substitute it with A-circle], I1, O1, O3, U1, U3.

(*) CWI recommendation for Hungarian accents:

A standard initiative to replace the many house rules of character code
assignment for accents unavailable in PC-437. Codes are assigned as
follows:

o3->147 [o^], u3->150 [u^], A1->143, I1->141 [i`] or 140 [I^],
O1->149 [o`], O3->167, U1->151 [u`], U3->153 [y~]

(*) PC-850: Multilingual

Contains all the accented vowels but ?3. Substitute them with ?^.
Note: ? means o, u, O or U.

(*) PC-852: Latin 2

Contains all the accented vowels. Try to use this if available.

(*) PC-860: Portuguese
(*) PC-863: Canadian-French
(*) PC-865: Nordic

These sets miss various Hungarian accents, esp. in upper case. Using
them for a Hungarian text makes absolutely no sense.

5.2.2.2 ISO character sets

 These character sets are specified by ISO standards. As far as ALL
(not only Hungarian) accented vowels concerned, ISO 8859/1, 2 & 9 is
equivalent to Windows Latin 1, 2 & 5 respectively.

(*) ISO 8859/1:
(*) ISO 8859/3:

Contain all the accented vowels but ?3. Substitute them with ?^.

(*) ISO 8859/2:

Contains all the accented vowels. Try to use this if available.

 Fonts for iso-8859-2 (and some other) character sets can be found at
<ftp://ftp.tarki.hu/pub/font/> for various operation systems, and at
<ftp://almos.vein.hu/ssa/kbd_es_font/> (mirrored at
<ftp://ftp.vma.bme.hu/pub/ssa/kbd_es_font/> and
<ftp://ftp.tarki.hu/pub/ssa/kbd_es_font/>) mostly for Unix. There is
material for Hungarianizing the Linux (and possibly other Unix variant)
operation system at <ftp://ftp.tarki.hu/pub/magyar/linux/>.

5.2.2.3 Others

The following character sets are supported by various laser printers. 
Roman-8 bears special importance as being the default character set of
many printers.

(*) Ventura International & Roman-8:
(*) MC Text:

Contain all the accented vowels but ?3. Substitute them with ?^.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 5.2.3 Text formatting languages

 The text formatting languages listed below, beyond their powerful text
formatting capabilities, also include the specification of [almost] all
the accented characters. These languages give an alternative way of
dealing with accents in 7-bit ASCII, especially if the software that
can display, print or convert these representations is available.
[Unlike notations in 5.2.1, the "raw" files of these languages are not
intended to be read by ordinary users.]

5.2.3.1 [La]TeX. 

 Invented by D. E. Knuth, TeX (pronounce as [tech]; 'X' denotes the
Greek letter 'chi'), and the macro collection based on it, LaTeX, are
today's most popular text formatting languages for document creation
and DTP.

To continue with the same example,

 \"{O}t h\H{u}t\H{o}h\'{a}zb\'{o}l k\'{e}rt\"{u}nk sz\'{\i}nh\'{u}st

 \'{a}rv\'{\i}zt\H{u}r\H{o} t\"{u}k\"{o}rf\'{u}r\'{o}g\'{e}p

 \"{O}t sz\'{e}p sz\H{u}zl\'{a}ny \H{o}r\"{u}lt \'{i}r\'{o}t ny\'{u}z

 This is meant to be printed with TeX or previewed as a dvi file.
 Wholly unambiguous, can be automatically converted to/from several
other formats (see 5.2.6). Also check the babel system for LaTeX with
the Hungarian specific option, available from FTP sites kth.se or
goya.dit.upm.es.

5.2.3.2 HTML (HyperText Markup Language)

 Unfortunately, the HTML-2 standard still does not contain notation for
Hungarumlaut (long umlaut, double acute). We use tilde or circumflex
instead. The preferred notation is o with tilde õ and u with
circumflex û. In the example above,

   Öt hûtõházból kértünk
   színhúst

   árvíztûrõ
   tükörfúrógép

   Öt szép szûzlány õrült
   írót nyúz

5.2.3.3 RTF (Rich Text Format)

 This standard is widespread among Microsoft word processors. For
non-ASCII characters it uses the following coding:

\'XX

where XX is the code of the given ISO 8859/2 (or PC-852 for Word for
DOS) character in hexadecimal.

5.2.3.4 Adobe PostScript

 It is a universal standard for describing any kind of graphics,
including fonts, but it is aimed at producing the final (typically
printed) copy of documents and not at word-processing per se. For a
starter document see <http://www.adobe.com/PS/PS-QA.html>; or
<ftp://wilma.cs.brown.edu/pub/comp.lang.postscript/FAQ.txt> or
<ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet-by-group/comp.answers/postscript/faq/part1-4>.
If one has the right accented fonts sets then, in theory, the output is
transferable between different machines - but often we run into hurdles
in practice.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 5.2.4 Microcomputer products: The word processors 

 Different word processors on different microcomputers use several
proprietary internal control sequences to handle accented characters,
as much as other symbols, and other text formatting commands. If you
want to transfer a document like this, you have to convert this [very
probably] binary file (8-bit ASCII with all kinds of binary crap) to
text (7-bit ASCII), see 5.2.5.1, unless your mailer can handle binary
directly, see 5.2.5.2. Make sure, however, that the recipient of your
document also possesses the same or equivalent word processor, or a
word processor supporting the format you used.

 It might happen that you want to use your document in another word
processing system, or a plain text editor. Today's word processors
offer conversion to a few formats, and also pure text with different
character sets (5.2.2). The resulting file, if necessary, can be
converted further to 7-bit ASCII as shown in 5.2.6. (The output is
already 7-bit ASCII in Microsoft's RTF, see 5.2.3.3.)

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 5.2.5 Switching binary to ASCII and vice versa

5.2.5.1 Uuencode & uudecode

 The easiest and most popular way of conversion between binary and
ASCII is the use of the twin sisters uuencode and uudecode. These
programs were created originally for Unix ('uu' stands for Unix to
Unix), but today they are implemented under most platforms.

 Uuencode makes an ASCII file out of a binary one, forming 61 character
long lines to avoid problems excessively long lines can cause in the
different mailer agents. This conversion increases the size of the file
by 40%.  Warning! Understand the really goofy usage of uuencode. The
parameters specify the local & remote BINARY filenames respectively.
The encoded ASCII result is sent to the standard output, it has to be
redirected into a file explicitly. (E.g. uuencode myface.gif myface.gif
> myface.uue )

 Uudecode converts the encoded ASCII file back to binary. It is smart:
using the "begin" and "end" tags placed in the encoded file, uudecode
is able to retrieve the encoded information automatically discarding
everything before and after the tags (headers, signatures, other junk),
even if it's inserted in the middle of the Encyclopedia Britannica. Its
usage is also simple: only the input filename has to be specified; the
original filename is restored from the "begin" tag. (E.g. uudecode
yourface.mal )

5.2.5.2 MIME support

 Many modern mailers support the MIME (Multipurpose Internet Mail
Extensions) standard being able to transfer different file formats
beyond plain text. In this case the ASCII/binary conversion is the
mailer's internal affair. Some mailers make explicit calls to uuencode
and uudecode, some others (e.g. PINE) have different built in
conversion algorithms, trying to choose the most appropriate one for
the given binary file. (One type of MIME encoding substitutes an
unprintable character by its code in hexadecimal, preceded by an =
sign. That's why you often see them splattered around.) In either case,
however, the user is not responsible for the conversion, the mailer
takes care of it automatically.

5.2.5.3 Binhex

 BinHex files are 7-bit ASCII text files, typically used for encoding
Macintosh binaries. Conversion is done by various applications, see eg.
<ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet-by-group/comp.answers/macintosh/general-faq>.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 5.2.6 Translating between various accent formats

 From the HIX archives (see section 3) the following programs are
available.  The regular location is 
<http://hix.mit.edu/hix/hixcore/senddoc/info/programs/>;, though
you should also check <http://hix.mit.edu/hix/hixcore/senddoc/new/>; 
for updates. At the time of this writing the SENDDOC archive is 
extremely ill-organized and outdated in many parts, including, 
unfortunately, the 'new' directory.

 Warning! From abroad always access the HIX archives via 
<http://hix.mit.edu/hix/hixcore/senddoc/>;,
<gopher://hix.mit.edu/11/HIX/senddoc>,
<mailto:>, or 'finger '
(the latter only works for text, and you may have to redirect it to a
pager or file). The mirror at <gopher://hix.elte.hu> is updated only at
certain periods of time, also there is a limited bandwidth on the lines
connecting Hungary to the world (see section 4).

5.2.6.1 ekezettelenites

 Gabor Toth's UNIX shell script for deleting unwanted accents from mail
files.

5.2.6.2 etex

 Gabor Toth's shareware C source code for converting the marking or
numerical accent notation to TeX-format. It also claims to be capable
of hyphenation. Supports the UNIX platform.

5.2.6.3 hion

 Peter Verhas's C source code. It's an improved version of etex, as it
reduces the probability of incorrect hyphenation with some built-in
exception library. Hion is able to do the conversion between the
numerical (or, redefining each accent mark, also the marking) accent
notation & TeX-format, and remove accents if the input is an accent
notation. Read his documentation. Supported platforms: VMS, MS-DOS,
UNIX. Available from <ftp://ftp.tarki.hu/pub/magyar/TeX/hion.tar.gz>
or <ftp://ftp.digital.bme.hu/hion/>.

5.2.6.4 drtc.c

 Peter Verhas's freeware C source for conversion between text and RTF
(Rich Text Format), character sets ISO 8852/2 (Latin 2), PC-852 (Latin
2) and CWI. The program attempts to find out the inbound format
automatically, RTF or text as well as used character set. The outbound
format is the same as the inbound format, the program changes only the
character set. In other words, the program does not convert from RTF ot
text or from text to RTF. Supported platforms: VMS, MS-DOS, & UNIX and
other platforms supporting ANSI C.

5.2.6.5 hun.c

 Gabor Ligeti's freeware C source code for accent removal and
conversion between the marking & numerical accent notation, TeX-format
and PC-852 (Latin 2) codepage. Warning! Conversion capabilities are not
orthogonal, type hun /? for the supported conversions. No platform
limitations are indicated.

5.2.6.6 MAXENT.UUE_V6.0a

 Peter Csaszar's freeware C source code compressed with pkzip & encoded
with uuencode (see 5.2.5.1). Warning! As of 6/12/95, the HIX gopher's
/HIX/SENDDOC/info/programs directory still contains 'maxent.c', the
very old version V1.4 of Maxent. Don't touch this file, go for version
V6.0a, currently in <http://hix.mit.edu/hix/hixcore/senddoc/new/MAXENT.Z>;.

 Maxent provides 100% orthogonality in conversion between any of the
accent notations listed in 5.2.1 but telegraphic style, and any of the
character sets listed in 5.2.2, allowing multiple notations in the
input file. The domain of conversion includes 6 vowels and 6 accent
types, applying therefore a house rule extension of the marking and
numerical accent notations. (Hoping that this extension becomes widely
accepted, no longer remaining a house rule.) Language accent profiles
other than the default Hungarian can be selected. Further accent
services include accent notation escaping & de-escaping (see 5.2.1.1),
and flexible substitution of the o3 etc. characters.

 Beyond some little services, the rest of the major features provide
comprehensive retabulation strategies, full newline conversion
capabilities and script file execution (ideal for maintaining mail
folders after download).

 The help given by the program can be saved into a file by typing
maxent -h0 > maxent.hlp . Print this file for fancy bedtime reading.

 Maxent supports only the MS-DOS environment, and should be compiled by
a Borland C compiler. This is the sacrifice for the extensive services
provided.

5.2.6.7 ekezet.dot

 Via anonymous <ftp://bme-tel.ttt.bme.hu/pub/income/ekezetes/>, you can
find Kornel Umann's WinWord template capable of many kinds of
conversion.  Also find other goodies in the directory above.

5.2.6.8 hixiso

 Olivier Clary's Unix scripts for converting accented text appearing
on HIX are at <ftp://almos.vein.hu/ssa/kbd_es_font/hixiso.tar.gz>.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject:  5.3 Information sources pertaining to the rest of Central Europe

 This section is by no means to be comprehensive. For a big but dated
(1992) list see
<gopher://poniecki.berkeley.edu/00/archives/polish.archives/Network/EE-MotherLi
st>.

 Both OMRI and CET cover the general region in their news. See Section
1.1 and 1.2, respectively.

 To complement the HUNGARY list (see Section 1.7), at the same listserv
at Buffalo there exist the Middle European discussion list MIDEUR-L as
well as POLAND-L and SLOVAK-L. Send the usual command to
<mailto:> (or simply  on
BITNET):

      SUBSCRIBE listname-L Yourfirstname Yourlastname.

 On Usenet there is soc.culture.romanian, soc.culture.czecho-slovak,
soc.culture.polish, and the gatewayed bit.listserv.mideur-l and
bit.listserv.slovak-l; bit.listserv.hungary has been established, but
many sites do not have it. The surest way to receive everything is via
email. If you prefer using Usenet newsreaders you find HIX's HUNGARY
digests posted to soc.culture.magyar (which group does not seem to
suffer the poor propagation affecting some of the bit.listserv
groups).  Please notice that while the listserv groups are
bi-directionally gatewayed, i.e. posts to them get propagated back to
the original mailing list, the posts coming from HIX to
soc.culture.magyar are mere copies of the mailing list messages - do
not reply to the newgroups since your answer won't reach the email
readers (who constitute a likely large majority).

 Speaking of limitations of distribution be aware that some commercial
Internet connection providers (most blatantly American Online)
established their own groups with topics overlapping existing Usenet
hierarchy. The utility of these local groups is seriously limited since
they are, unlike the open real Usenet newsgroups such as those
mentioned above, unavailable to anyone but their own subscribers (i.e.
a small domestic fraction of all the Internet/Usenet users worldwide).
Please do not post to non-local groups saying how nice would be to use
these specialized forums - we can not. Use the newsgroup
soc.culture.magyar or the mailing lists!

 The Central European Regional Research Organization (CERRO) can be
joined at <mailto:> with the command
SUBSCRIBE CERRO-L Firstname Lastname.  This is a scholarly group that
deposits papers and the like in an electronic archive in Vienna.  The
archive is accessible with anonymous <ftp://wu-wien.ac.at>, or with
<gopher://gopher.wu-wien.ac.at>.

 The Eastern Europe Business Network ) is
primarily remarkable for its size (1700+ subscribers). Messages tend to
be brief bursts of announcements, questions and, unsurprisingly, calls
for or queries about business. The list is administered by Yale's Civic
Education Project (Chris Owen, <mailto:>). To
subscribe, send a message to the address
<mailto:> that has

             subscribe e-europe YourFirstName YourLastName
in its body.

 The repository for Voice of America material, accessible with
<gopher://gopher.voa.gov>, also contains some information and news
items relevant to the region.

 Check the NATO archive for goodies: <gopher://gopher.nato.int>.

 The Slovakia Document Store will answer all your questions about
Slovakia:  on the World Wide Web, <http://www.eunet.sk>;, via
<gopher://gopher.eunet.sk>, via <ftp://ftp.eunet.sk/slovakia/>, via
gophermail: send a message with Subject: HELP
<mailto:>.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 6.  CONTRIBUTORS TO THIS FAQ

(the order is alphabetical by last name)

Beke Tibor     <mailto:>           general layout, 2.1, 5.3
Bruner, Rick   <mailto:>     1.3
Csaszar Peter  <mailto:>   5.1, 5.2
Fabian Peter   <mailto:> 3.1, 4.1, 4.4
Fekete Zoli    <mailto:>           much of the rest
Hewes, Cameron <mailto:>      1.2
Hollo Kriszta  <mailto:>         4.2
Saghi-Szabo Gotthard <mailto:>, section 1.8
Toth, Joseph   <mailto:>, section 2.3
Umann Kornel   <mailto:>        5.2
Varnum, Ken    <mailto:>       1.1

 If you have a question or remark regarding some specific section, you
may want to contact its author. The FAQ as such continues to be
maintained by Zoli Fekete <mailto:>. The keeper hereby
expresses the many thanks we all owe to every contributor - and above
all to Tibor Beke who brought about this cooperative effort, and took
upon consolidating the whole (with Peter Csaszar who took over the
next-to-last editing). Still, any errors (with the exception of the
independently maintained section 2.3) are the responsibility of Zoli -
who'd like to hear all corrections, recommendations or just comments
readers may have!
 Acknowledgement is also due here to Jozsef Hollosi and Arpad Palotas,
for providing webspace to this FAQ on the HIX server and helping to
improve its homepage, respectively.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 7.      How to read this FAQ - what's in there < ~!@#$%^&* >

 One of these days ;-) there will be a guide here about how to handle
all the strange things that you may see embedded in this text; but in
the meantime, if you don't know yet what URLs are and are not reading a
copy thru a WWW browser that may show a selectable link: just do the
sensible thing and use email to access 'mailto:' addresses, ftp for
'ftp:' and telnet for 'telnet:'...

 Updated versions of this document will be in
<http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/posted>;
or <ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/news.answers/hungarian-faq>. Notice
that the canonical Usenet archive <ftp://rtfm.mit.edu> is often
overloaded - if you can't get connected try one of the mirror sites (of
which a list by countries can be found in
<ftp://mirrors.aol.com/pub/rtfm/usenet/news.answers/news-answers/introduction>
that is also available thru the RTFM mail-server shown below) - eg.
<ftp://mirrors.aol.com/pub/rtfm/usenet/news.answers/hungarian-faq> in
the USA! You can also retrieve it via <mailto:>
with the command "send usenet/news.answers/hungarian-faq" in the body
of the message, or via 'finger '.
 A brief extract of hungarian-faq, concentrating on the email services,
is also available now
<http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/hungarian-faq-pointer>; or 
'finger '.
 A separate document on network service providers in Hungary
prepared independently by John Horvath <mailto:> is
available via email from its author or via
<http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/comm-providers>;.

 This hungarian-faq is expected to be updated at least every couple of
months, due to the rapid changes occuring on the net. If you are
reading a copy whose 'Last-modified:' date shown on top is older than
that then many parts may be out of date - in this case get the recent
one from the sources listed above, and/or try to convince the
administrator of the site keeping the old copy to freshen it. Please
notice that retrieving from the Usenet archives is likely a lot faster
than asking me personally (and most everything I can answer is already
in here)! If you do write me <mailto:>, then give a
descriptive 'Subject:' line - keep in mind that much of my incoming
email deemed unworthy by me is deleted unread in order to keep up with
the high volume I am receiving (most of it from various mailing
lists). The best way to ensure catching my attention - and to allow
automatized pre-processing - is to start it with 'ZFIX:' (the name my
mail-handler answers to is Zophisticated Free Information eXchange, in
case you were wondering :-)).

 This work as a collection is copyright (1990-96) Zoli Fekete, and
parts are copyright of their respective authors. Please do not
redistribute substantial portions without contacting the maintainer.
 Since February 14, 1996 this document is authenticated 
by my secure public-key encrypted electronic signature 
(see <http://www.ifi.uio.no/pgp>; for details), 
 the public key for which is shown in the WWW link 
<http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/pgp-key.asc>; 
and is also attached to the end of the text available via
 'finger '!
 Unauthorized publishing in off-line media - such as printed, CD-ROM or 
magnetic databases - is explicitly prohibited!  

Archive-name: hungarian/faq
Soc-culture-magyar-archive-name: faq
Last-modified: 1996/02/14
Version: 1.41
Posting-Frequency: every fifteen days
- - - --
 Zoli , keeper of <http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/>;
 <'finger '> 

SELLERS BEWARE: I will never buy anything from companies associated
with inappropriate online advertising (unsolicited commercial email,
excessive multiposting etc), and discourage others from doing so too!

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On Wed, 14 Feb 1996, Zoli Fekete, keeper of hungarian-faq wrote:
....
>  My question about your list is: I haven't received anything at all after
> the initial acknowledgement ever since re-subscribing (on 01 Feb 1996) -
> is there a reason for this? 
....

Kedves Zoltan,
Eloszor is talan megmondhatnad melyik listarol van szo. Jelenleg negy 
levelezesi listat uzemeltetunk a marylandi egyetemen. Egyebkent mindegyik 
lista :

1, nem moderalt, nem cenzurazott
2, teljesen onkentes alapon mukodik, azaz mi senkit sem rakunk fel a 
   listara vagy veszunk le a listarol hacsak nem nem kerik
3, a levelek nyilvanosan hozzaferhetoek a WWW-en vagy az SCM-en
4, nem kell elofizetonek lenni ahhoz hogy uzenetet kuldhessel be

A kovetkezo esetekben nem kapsz levelet tolunk:

a, nem fizetsz elo
b, rossz cimen fizetsz elo
c, a szamladdal terjesztesi problemak vannak 

Osszefoglalva, ha a fenti soraid arra akarnak utalni, hogy a marylandi 
magas, szokehaju, kekszemu, fasiszta internet huliganok teged 
kicenzuraztak a listajukrol, remelem belatod, hogy semmi ertelme nem 
lett volna - mint ahogy azt sohasem tettuk meg -, a fenti nyilvanvalo 
okok miatt. 

Egy masik dolog jutott hirtelen az eszembe. Csak halas lehetek ket 
volt kollegamnak, akikkel egyutt dolgoztam a marylandi egyetemen - Kovacs 
Arpad es Nagy Zsolt -, hogy nem irtak be gyakrabban az SCM-re. Kulonben 
en is meg lettem volna gyanusitva, hogy a fantaziam nem terjed tovabb a 
Nagy, Kovacs es Szabo neveknel. Arrol nem is beszelve, hogy volt 
Marylanden negy masik, szinten aktiv Kovacs - Kovacs Beata, Kovacs 
Randy, Kovacs Robert es Kovacs Laszlo, valamint a legcsinosabb Szabok 
egyike - Szabo Eszter. Es mig a jobboldal vadan lezsidozott volna, 
"felfedezve igazi" nevem -  Gotthard Schneider (bipbip), a balja hangosa 
lefasisztazott volna, mert a negy marylandi listan meg mindig nincs a 
moderalas bevezetve.

Joejszakat Zolika,
Gotthard
--
Gotthard Saghi-Szabo  
Carnegie Institution of Washington, D.C.
mailto:

On Thu, 15 Feb 1996, Peter Szaszvari wrote:

> Kedves Olvasok!
> 
> Mindenkinek figyelmebe ajanlom a "Hungarian FAQ" tortenetenek nyomonkoveteset
.
> A tortenet erdekes es hiven peldazza a "magyar" gondolkodast. Engedjek meg 
> nekem, hogy feluletesen megprobaljam osszefoglalni mi tortent eddig.
> Amit irok reszben feltetelezeseken alapszik, igy nagyon orulnek ha az 
> erintettek kijavitanak hibaimat.

Kedves Olvasok!
Mindenkinek figyelmebe ajanlom a "Hungarian FAQ" tortenetenek 
nyomonkoveteset - Szaszvari Peter tolmacsolasaban.
A tortenet erdekes es remelem hamisan peldazza a "magyar" gondolkodast. 
Engedjek meg nekem, hogy Peter feluletesen levont kovetkezteteseit 
ne foglaljam ossze, hadd mondjam el inkabb mi tortent eddig.
Amit Peter irt teljesen feltetelezeseken alapszik, ambar, remelem, most 
orulni fog a hibai kijavitasaert.

> >Hi,
> >I have deposited a HyperNews version of the FAQ at URL:
> >http://mineral.umd.edu/faq/
> ..es
> >As soon as enough significant material is collected, we are going to 
> >start the distribution of the new FAQ - hopefully, this time, as opposed 
> >to the current FAQ - without any disturbing bias.

Ez nem egy uj FAQ - ez Fekete Zoltan FAQ-ja, valtoztatas nelkul, uj 
formatumban felteve a WWW-re. Ez az a FAQ, ami kethetenete megjelenik az 
SCM-en. Minden hivatkozas ami az eredeti FAQ-ben megtalalhato, 
megtalalhato a fenti cim alatt. Semmi nem utal arra, hogy ez egy uj FAQ 
lenne, amit vagy en vagy a UMCP HAA allitott volna elo. Ugyanott 
megtalalod a kovetkezo sorokat is:

http://mineral.umd.edu/HyperNews/get/faq/faq6.html

>This work as a collection is copyright (1990-96) Zoli Fekete, and
>parts are copyright of their respective authors. Please do not
>redistribute substantial portions without contacting the maintainer.
>Unauthorized publishing in off-line media - such as printed, CD-ROM or 
>magnetic databases - is explicitly prohibited! 
 
Ha a dolog ketertelmu lett volna - elnezest. Ambar, talan jo lenne egy 
olyan FAQ-ot fenntartani, amit barmelyik magyar feltehet a honlapjara.
Egyebkent Peter, sajnos nem mondhatom hogy tul sok uj szint hoztal volna 
az SCM eletebe. Sajnos rosszindulatu vagy, feluletes es nyilvanvaloan 
tobb idod van irni mint gondolkodni. Az a tucat ego, akikbol mar tobben 
elkoptak ezeken az oldalakon. Tudnal csak egyszer is,  pozitiv, 
konstruktive gondolatokkal elojonni, ami mindnyajunknak hasznara lenne 
ezen a forumon? Azt hiszem ez az ami engem tenne boldogga.

Udv,
Gotthard
--
Gotthard Saghi-Szabo  
Carnegie Institution of Washington, D.C.
mailto:

Ana Lilia Garcia Perez wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 6 Feb 1996, Faryde Lara Rodriguez wrote:
> 
> > Attibabbaus in arabian
> > Te amo in spanish
> > Ti amo in italian

Je t'aime en Frances
Ich liebe dich en Aleman

In article >, 
-state.edu (Gabor Barsai) says:
>
>
>In article >,
>Peter Szaszvari > wrote:
>>Kedves Olvasok!
>...
>>Ebbol nekem ugy tunik, hogy az inkorrektsegrol siro szerzoharmas
>>"elfelejtette" masolas elott ertesiteni az eredeti szerzot.
>>
>>Az en kerdesem: Mi ennek az oka? Ez a szemet viselkedes magyarspecifikus vagy
>>csak szimplan "human"?
>
>Szerintem a "szemet" viselkedes szimplan human, bar a panaszkodas, es utana a
>semmitteves (ami nem egyenlo a "szemet viselkedessel") az a tapasztalatom
>szerint elegge "magyarspecifikus" (avagy: "mindig mas a felelos, a kormany, az
>elado...en csak aldozat vagyok" mentalitas).
>
>>A FAQ-sztorihoz mindenkinek aki szereti az emberi "melysegeket" tovabbi jo
>>szorakozast kivan: SzP.
>
>Kedves Peter, igazan bravuros megfigyelesek!
>
>En inkabb a Zoli mellett tartok.
>
>Gabor

Oh, cut it out! Booooring!


Szivelyes udvozlettel,

Madarka

Is anyone looking for a reliable person from Hungary for part time work in
Northern N.J.?

In article >,  (Abel Te
o) writes:
|>  (Jesus Rafael Lee) wrote:
|> 
|> (Nestor J. Presas ) wrote:
|> 
|> 
|> >>>
|> >>>In German ..........drei und dreissig
|> >>>
|> >>>
|> >>In Quechua...Mirasi seras cojudo
|> 
|> >En mandarín....Wo Ai Ni.
|> 
|> It is not Wo Ai Ni in mandarin.  That means 'I love you'.
|> Thirty three is 'San Shi San'.
|> 
|> >En tagalo....Mahal kita, iniirog kita o iniibig kita

	In English, in Latrobe, Pennsylvania -

	`33' == Rolling Rock Beer!

	Enjoy -

	-- W. Sachse

Hol vannak a magyar klubbok meg intezetek New Jersey-ben a fiatoloknak?
Mit csinal a magyar ifjusag  New Jersey-ben?
Turelmetlenul varom a valaszokat.

Ko:szo:nto:m Mindnya'jukat!

 Nemre'gen indi'tottam itt a Miskolci Egyetemen egy elektronikus gale'ria't
 azzal a ce'llal, hogy a re'gio' ke'pzo"mu've'szeti eseme'nyeiro'l
tudo'si'tsa a web vila'got, es a varosunk tukorkepehez a halozaton
hozza'ja'ruljon.
  Az elke'pzele'sekro"l tervekro"l re'szletesebben a gale'ria 
 bekoszontoje'ben is olvashatni:

              http://swvi.szkp.uni-miskolc.hu/gopher/Galeria/galeria.html

Amiert irok O:no:knek az egy tervem:
              A millecentenariumi ev kapcsan szeretnek egy anyagot gyujteni,
amiben a barhol e'lo" magyar  es magyar szarmazasu muveszek szerepelnenek
fenykepukkel, 3-5 keppel, egy rovid bemutatkozo szoveggel,az evforduloval
kapcsolatos gondolataikkal. Az anyag egy folyamatosan bovulo" kia'llita's
lenne, ami az evfordulo kapcsan osszehozna' egy "kia'llitoterembe" az
aka'rhova' is elsza'rmazott magyar mu"veszeket. Itthon bemutatkozhatna a
ta'vol e'lo" e's a ta'vol e'lo"k megismerhetne'k az itthon alkoto'kat.


Ezzel kapcsolatban va'rom szives ve'leme'nyu:ket, segito" gondolataikat.
Talan segithetnek a dolgot ismertte tenni es tamogatokat talalni./Nem
minden alkoto'mu"ve'sz rendelkezik Internet kapcsolattal, s o"ket is
szeretne'm ele'rni./

Udvozlettel :
                        Somosva'ri Be'la