He escaped to France, but only after long torture and a great loss.

To: /mail/am/am620                    Msg #: 5804      Size: 1160/40
   From:              On: 10/03/95  21:04
Subject: SCM: The Flag law and Tomi's  DOCUMENTS !
Reply-To: 


 Tom Angi writes with aplomb :
--------------------------------------
>My wife doesn't think your comment is amusing.

>How old are these girls?
> --------------------------------------------
Hey, no wonder she might be jelous, you dirty old ...
------------------------------

>BTW, our citizenship is not "damned."  We were both born here in the
USA.

>Go home.  Stay out of here.  You already got too much of our land.

>A 100% Magyar (and have documents dating back to the Reformation
to prove it.)
Tom Angi
> ---------------------------------------------

OK,OK, Tomi, if you say so , since I don't really fancy you.

I don't care about those Reformation papers but.. ..
You got any documents on your wife by any chance ?
You know, new ones, Polaroid pictures of her wearing EVE's costume  ??

HAdrian  C(aligulescu)

P.S.  You wanna buy some ?

> -------------------------------------------------------

So you're telling us that they castrated you too?

When did you have to change your name?

No I don't wanna (sic) buy some.  Don't you know that the child 
pornography you send through the mail and post on the net is 
illegal.

From news.u.washington.edu!saul6.u.washington.edu!szamos Wed Oct  4 21:14:11 19
95
Path: news.u.washington.edu!saul6.u.washington.edu!szamos
From:  (Janos Szamosfalvi)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.hungary,soc.culture.magyar,soc.culture.romanian
Subject: Re: Clinton-Iliescu Meeting
Followup-To: bit.listserv.hungary,soc.culture.magyar,soc.culture.romanian
Date: 5 Oct 1995 02:51:04 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
Lines: 20
Message-ID: >
References: > 
 > > <441q
> > <dan


NNTP-Posting-Host: saul6.u.washington.edu
NNTP-Posting-User: szamos
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Xref: news.u.washington.edu soc.culture.magyar:15674 soc.culture.romanian:26606

Distribution: 

Dan Pop ) wrote:

: I happen to know families in Cluj and they didn't seem particularly
: worried.                                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^       
  ^^^^^^^
Would you please clarify the ^^^ part?   Do they think that magyars 
are treated equally, or not? 

: Of course, they knew pretty well that they couldn't sell me the 
: usual hostile propaganda, which is good only for export to people who
: have no clue about Romania's realities and are ready to buy anything
: about the Hungarian and Gypsy "discrimination", "genocide", "oppression",
: etc in Romania.

Acts speak for themselves.   And the Ru[o]manian government has 
provided ample evidence showing that "discrimination" is real;
"oppression" is very subjective hence it's a rather murky issue, 
however, usually there's no smoke without fire; "genocide" is most 
likely a result of exaggeration.  Of course, "cultural genocide" 
is a completely different matter.

 (KateSalter) asks:
     
      says:
     ! Frankenstadt or Draculasvar or even Tg. Mamaliga,
     ! where Count Chocola met Dr. Frankenwiener
     ! to get his fangs a new crown !
     !.....................................................................
     ....
     ....
     ! Or.. You can always ask the "naturalized" Romanian, Mr. Panonescu
     ! himself what Dr. Frankenwiener, the famous Vienna proctologist,
     ! recommended him after the initial visit :
     ! Zee praktik makes perrrfektisimo !
     
     >Who is that famous Dr. Frankenwiener you talk all the time? What 
     >makes his treatment so efficient? Traditional medicine? Does he treat 
     >everyone, democratically, or makes preferences? Dr. Frankenwiener 
     >must be overbooked, is' he? 
     >
     >Kate.
     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
     
     the illustrious Dr. Frankenwiener is the personal psychologist and 
     proctologist of , aka. panonescu and 
     joe_pannon (trying hard to americanize his name...).
     
     Dr. Frankenwiener exclusively treats panonescu by somewhat 
     unconventional methods (which i will not get into it - some of our 
     readers may feel ill_at_ease).  however, he would be willing to expand 
     his treatment abilities upon other worthy recipients of which 
     soc-culture-romanian as well as soc-culture-magyar abounds.
     
     -cristian

>From:  (Tom Angi)
     >Subject:  hates Hungarians
     
     >This guy hates all Hungarians.
     
     huh??.....assuming i am talking to a normal individual, where did you 
     get this idea from?
     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
     
     >Chris Tomescu was forced to convert to Rumanianism by the Caecescu
     >government.
     
     >He was tortured and castrated.
     
     >He loves to tell the story.
     
     >Write him at 
     
     hmmm....i guess my assumption above was wrong.
     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
     
     conclusion:
     
     1.  m. dima has resurfaced as tom_angi, the new resident_imbecile of 
     soc-culture-magyar.
     
     2.  he is in serious need of a psychiatrist.
       
     3.  he has ZERO sense_of_humor, intelligence, and wit.
     
     4.  it is pointless of paying him any more attention.
     
     -cristian
     
     
     ps: this " rU_vs_rO debate" (?) is absurd.

Valaki vilagositson mar fel, hogy miert van ennyi roman a 
soc.culture.magyar newsgroup-on? 
kosz. 
kovi

RE:
Oh, yes. Mr. Angi's and Mr. Keeler's post are sooooooooooo intelligent, my puny
brain can hardly handle such lojik and nollij. Of course, this is in contrast
to the great stupidity of people like JELIKO and Matyas from the anon service,
who actually try to post sentences that make sense.

Gabor
> -----------------------------------------

Szia, Gabor!

Minden jot!

Tell us more about your magazines--you know the ones they keep behind the
counter at 7-11.

Penthouse is a great cultural comodity.

FORWARDED FROM: /mail/am/am620(#5769) From:am620(Tom Angi)
FORWARDED FROM: /mail/am/am620(#5730) From:am620(Tom Angi)
FORWARDED FROM: /mail/am/am620(#5706) From:(Liviu Iordac
h
e)
From: Matthew Peter Muresan

>Yes, up to the late 1950s, the generally accepted
>spelling was Rumania[...] It was even in line with the
>way many (less educated probably) Romanians have called
>themselves for centuries ("rumi^n" -- just think of some
>ballads and other such folklore).

You might not be exactly correct here. What was the
spelling used by boyar Neacsu of Cimpulung, most
certainly one of the educated Romanians of the 16th
century?

Tseara ruma~neasca~!!!

How about the famous Prof.Nae Ionescu? What was the
spelling stressed in the columns of his 1930s newspaper
"Cuvintul?"

Not Roma^n, but Ruma^n!!!

>let alone the conspicuous and undeniable roman origins
>of the Romanian nation.

Yes, but as far as linguistic is concerned "Romanian" is
derived from "romanus" via "ruma~n" and not the other way
around. The evolutionary path, as correctly as it can be
reconstructed, is

romanus-->ruma~n-->rumi^n-->roma^n

Therefore, none of the above spellings contradicts the
Latin roots of the Romanian language. As a matter of
fact, I'm not aware of any theory that denies the Latin
roots of Romanians.

>That said, the one true measure of the generally
>accepted spelling of any word is the way it shows in
>scholarly works, in news magazines, and in dailies.  I
>can testify based on a great number of books ...
>agree on Romania as the correct spelling.  In fact, a
>NEXIS search [...] never returned Rumania as a response.

Well, my search speaks the contrary (see Appendix). Let's
stress here that many of the authors that still use the
English spelling "Rumania" are Romanians, working
currently in Romania, or researchers from abroad highly
trained in matters concerning Romanian history and,
therefore, aware of many of the Romanian nationalistic
phobias.

>Finally, I am not willing (and honestly hope that nobody
>else is either) to embark upon fighting any argument
>that would assert that the Daco-Roman continuity is
>bogus.  I think arguments in favour of that abound in
>such a fashion that denying said continuity is akin to
>saying that the Holocaust hasn't taken place.

Yeah, whatever... And the most categoric argument is the
spelling "Romania," isn't it? Anyhow I must have missed
something here. What is the connection between the Latin
origin of Romanian, the Holocaust, and the so-called
"Daco-Roman(ian)" theory? Not that I really care for an
answer, but I find your reasoning quite charming.

According to an ancient Chinese document, the Moon is
made up of green cheese. Denying this is like saying that
our Hungarian fellows are in no way related to Attila.

Liviu Iordache

Appendix

 SEARCH QUERY:
 RUMANIA
        1 OF  30
 AU CROMEN-E.  GREGORI-I.  SCHASHER-A.
 TI RUMANIA UNDERGOING RADICAL CHANGE - PROSPECTS AND PROBLEMS REGARDING
    EUROPEAN INTEGRATION - GERMAN - GREGORI,I, SCHASER,A.
 SO POLITISCHE-VIERTELJAHRESSCHRIFT.  1995, JUN, V36, N2, P319-327.
    ISSN 0032-3470.
        2 OF  30
 AU SARINGER-G.  TAKACS-A.
 TI BIOLOGY AND CONTROL OF TANYMECUS-DILATICOLLIS GYLL (COL,
    CURCULIONIDAE).
 SO ACTA-PHYTOPATHOLOGICA-ET-ENTOMOLOGICA-HUNGARICA.  1994, V29, N1-2,
    P173-185.
    ISSN 0238-1249.
 AB T. dilaticollis has long been a member of the Hungarian fauna, but
    publication on its damage only appeared in 1952.  In South-Eastern
    European countries first of all in Rumania, ......
        3 OF  30
 AU LANTERMANN-ED.  HANZE-M.
 TI VALUES AND MATERIAL SUCCESS OF RESETTLERS.
 SO ZEITSCHRIFT-FUR-SOZIALPSYCHOLOGIE.  1995, V26, N1, P15-23.
    ISSN 0044-3514.
 AB A causal two-step model for the development ....
    ....The model was
    tested with a structural equation model on the basis of interview
    data from 239 resettler families from Poland, ROUMANIA...
        4 OF  30
 AU PETKOVSKI-S.
 TI ON THE PRESENCE OF THE GENUS TANYMASTIX SIMON, 1886 (CRUSTACEA,
    ANOSTRACA) IN MACEDONIA.
 SO HYDROBIOLOGIA.  1995, FEB 24, V298, N1-3, P307-313.
    ISSN 0018-8158.
 AB The genus Tanymastix Simon, 1886 is represented in Macedonia by two
    species: Tanymastix stagnalis (Linnaeus, 1758) and Tanymastix motasi
    Orghidan, 1945. ... In
    T. motasi, the original description of the species, hitherto known
    only for the Giurgiu Region in RUMANIA, is supplemented by additional
    diagnostic characteristics.
        5 OF  30
 AU TEPPNER-H.  KLEIN-E.  DRESCHER-A.  ZAGULSKIJ-M.
 TI NIGRITELLA-CARPATICA (ORCHIDACEAE ORCHIDEAE) - A RELIC ENDEMIC OF THE
    EASTERN CARPATHIANS - TAXONOMY, DISTRIBUTION, KARYOLOGY AND
    EMBRYOLOGY.
 SO PHYTON-ANNALES-REI-BOTANICAE.  1994, V34, N2, P169+.
    ISSN 0079-2047.
 AB Nigritella carpatica (Zapalowicz) Teppner, Klein & Zagulskij, comb.
    nova, is described in full detail.....
    The species is endemic in the northwestern
    part of the East Carpathian Mountains and is known from six locations
    (in RUMANIA and the Ukraine)...
        6 OF  30
 AU PFISTER-T.  WEGMULLER-U.
 TI UPPER MARINE MOLASSE, MIDDLE BURDIGALIAN NEAR BERNE, SWITZERLAND .1.
    PALAEOTAXODONTA AND PTERIOMORPHIA PRO-PARTE.
 SO ECLOGAE-GEOLOGICAE-HELVETIAE.  1994, V87, N3, P895-973.
    ISSN 0012-9402.
 AB The rich and diverse macrofauna of the Belpbergschichten
    ......... The location of the area at the transition
    from the Central Paratethys (E-Bavaria to Ukraine and RUMANIA)
        7 OF  30
 AU NASCU-HI.  COMSULEA-DI.  NIAC-G.
 TI THE DISTRIBUTION OF INORGANIC ELEMENTS BETWEEN COAL AND MINERAL
    MATTER IN RUMANIAN LIGNITE.
 SO FUEL.  1995, JAN, V74, N1, P119-123.
    ISSN 0016-2361.
        8 OF  30
 AU BOHM-H.
 TI A BACH ACADEMY IN RUMANIA.
 SO MUSIK-UND-KIRCHE.  1994, SEP-OCT, V64, N5, P303-303.
    ISSN 0027-4771.
        9 OF  30
 AU DELETANT-D.
 TI THE GREAT-POWERS AND RUMANIA, 1944-1946 - A STUDY OF THE EARLY
    COLD-WAR ERA - SAIU,L.
 SO SLAVONIC-AND-EAST-EUROPEAN-REVIEW.  1994, JUL, V72, N3, P562-563.
    ISSN 0037-6795.
       10 OF  30
 AU LAZARESCU-M.  ARDELEANU-V.  JIANU-A.
 TI STUDY ON THE REACTIVE PSYCHOSIS OCCURRED DURING THE REVOLUTION OF
    DECEMBER 1989 - TIMISOARA, RUMANIA.
 SO EUROPEAN-JOURNAL-OF-PSYCHIATRY.  1993, OCT-DEC, V7, N4, P219-228.
    ISSN 0213-6163.
       11 OF  30
 AU DELETANT-D.
 TI RUMANIA, 1866-1947 - HITCHINS,K.
 SO TLS-THE-TIMES-LITERARY-SUPPLEMENT.  1994, JUL 22, N4764, P26-26.
    ISSN 0307-661X.
       12 OF  30
 AU SNEDEKER-DC.
 TI NATIONALISM AND THE MILITARY IN THE 1990S - THE UNIQUE CASE OF
    RUMANIA.
 SO HISTORY-OF-EUROPEAN-IDEAS.  1994, MAR, V18, N2, P241-254.
    ISSN 0191-6599.
       13 OF  30
 AU PERPERE-M.
 TI THE PALEOLITHIC AND NEOLITHIC OF RUMANIA IN A EUROPEAN CONTEXT -
    FRENCH - CHIRICA,V, MONAH,D.
 SO ANTHROPOLOGIE.  1993, V97, N2-3, P542-542.
    ISSN 0003-5521.
       14 OF  30
 AU BORONEANT-V.
 TI NEW DATA ON ANTHROPOLOGICAL DISCOVERIES FROM SCHELA-CLADOVEI,
    DROBETA-TURNU SEVERIN (RUMANIA).
 SO ANTHROPOLOGIE.  1993, V97, N2-3, P511-514.
    ISSN 0003-5521.
       15 OF  30
 AU PELISEK-J.
 TI QUATERNARY SEDIMENTS IN THE AREA OF MAMAIA-SAT, RUMANIA, ON THE BLACK
    SEA SHORELINE.
 SO ANTHROPOLOGIE.  1993, V97, N2-3, P265-270.
    ISSN 0003-5521.
       16 OF  30
 AU VALOCH-K.
 TI THE INDUSTRIES OF THE MIDDLE PALAEOLITHIC SITE MAMAIA-SAT (RUMANIA)
 SO ANTHROPOLOGIE.  1993, V97, N2-3, P239-264.
    ISSN 0003-5521.
       17 OF  30
 AU URBAN-W.
 TI THE GREAT-POWERS AND RUMANIA, 1944-1946 - A STUDY OF THE EARLY
    COLD-WAR ERA - SAIU,L.
 SO JOURNAL-OF-BALTIC-STUDIES.  1993, FAL, V24, N3, P315-315.
    ISSN 0162-9778.
       18 OF  30
 AU PRADO-C.  GOMEZLOBO-P.
 TI ANTHROPOLOGY AS A PREDICTOR OF RISK FACTORS ON CARDIOVASCULAR
    DISEASES - ADOLESCENT PERIOD.
 SO COLLEGIUM-ANTROPOLOGICUM.  1993, DEC, V17, N2, P297-303.
    ISSN 0350-6134.
 AB ......
    where the morbi-mortality due to cardiovascular diseases has most
    positive.  Spain is, together with RUMANIA, the European country
    where the morbi-mortality due to cardiovascular diseases has most
    augmented.
       19 OF  30
 AU MICHELSON-PE.
 TI THE GREAT POWERS AND RUMANIA, 1944-1946 - A STUDY OF THE EARLY COLD
    WAR ERA - SAIU,L.
 SO AMERICAN-HISTORICAL-REVIEW.  1993, DEC, V98, N5, P1577-1577.
    ISSN 0002-8762.
       20 OF  30
 AU KELLOGG-F.
 TI THE GREAT POWERS AND RUMANIA, 1944-1946 - A STUDY OF THE EARLY
    COLD-WAR ERA - SAIU,L.
 SO SLAVIC-REVIEW.  1993, FAL, V52, N3, P612-613.
    ISSN 0037-6779.
       21 OF  30
 AU KIRATZI-AA.
 TI ACTIVE DEFORMATION IN THE VRANCEA REGION, RUMANIA.
 SO PURE-AND-APPLIED-GEOPHYSICS.  1993, V140, N3, P391-402.
    ISSN 0033-4553.
       22 OF  30
 AU AVRAM-E.  SZASZ-L.  ANTONESCU-E.  BALTRES-A.  IVA-M.  MELINTE-M.
    NEAGU-T.  RADAN-S.  TOMESCU-C.
 TI CRETACEOUS TERRESTRIAL AND SHALLOW MARINE DEPOSITS IN NORTHERN
    SOUTH-DOBROGEA (SE RUMANIA).
 SO CRETACEOUS-RESEARCH.  1993, JUN, V14, N3, P265-305.
    ISSN 0195-6671.
       24 OF  30
 AU FISCHER-ME.
 TI 20TH-CENTURY RUMANIA - FISCHERGALATI,S.
 SO SLAVIC-REVIEW.  1993, SPR, V52, N1, P139-140.
    ISSN 0037-6779.
       25 OF  30
 AU CETERCHI-I.
 TI INSTITUTIONAL PROBLEMS OF TRANSITION IN RUMANIA.
 SO REVUE-D-ETUDES-COMPARATIVES-EST-OUEST.  1992, DEC, V23, N4, P89-126
    ISSN 0338-0599.
       26 OF  30
 AU SIMONIC-A.  VRHOVAC-B.
 TI CLINICAL PHARMACOLOGY IN EASTERN EUROPEAN COUNTRIES.
 SO INTERNATIONAL-JOURNAL-OF-CLINICAL-PHARMACOLOGY-THERAPY-AND-
    TOXICOLOGY.  1993, JUN, V31, N6, P301-308.
    ISSN 0174-4879.
 AB The current ...
    It is mainly basic in only a few
    countries (RUMANIA, Turkey,
       27 OF  30
 AU PEARTON-M.
 TI THE GREAT POWERS AND RUMANIA 1944-1946 - A STUDY OF THE EARLY
    COLD-WAR ERA - SAIU,L.
 SO EUROPE-ASIA-STUDIES.  1993, V45, N3, P567-568.
    ISSN 0038-5859.
       28 OF  30
 AU LABARONNE-D.
 TI THE RUMANIAN ECONOMY IN TRANSITION TO A MARKET ECONOMY - ECONOMIC AND
    INSTITUTIONAL REFORMS.
 SO REVUE-D-ETUDES-COMPARATIVES-EST-OUEST.  1992, JUN-SEP, V23, N2-3,
    P105-136.
       29 OF  30
 AU BIRZEA-C.
 TI THE ISSUE OF POPULATION IN RUMANIA.
 SO INTERNATIONAL-REVIEW-OF-EDUCATION.  1993, MAR, V39, N1-2, P133-136
       30 OF  30
 AU VANEV-SG.  NEGREAN-G.
 TI RAMULARIA-BISCUTELIAE, SP-NOV.
 SO MYCOTAXON.  1993, JAN-MAR, V46, JAN-, P35-36.
 AB .......
       During taxonomic investigations of some undetermined Hyphomycetous
    specimens deposited in the Mycological Herbarium of the Institute of
    Biological Sciences, Bucharest, RUMANIA (BUCM),....

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What does this have to do with Magyar society and culture?

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-----FORWARDER'S COMMENTS:
He's still here!

From: Matthew Peter Muresan
>>>let alone the conspicuous and undeniable roman
>>>origins of the Romanian nation.

>>Therefore, none of the above spellings [i.e., ruma~n,
>>rumi^n, roma^n, Rumania, Romania) contradicts the
>>Latin roots of the Romanian language.

>I agree, and I never said otherwise.  I'm not quite sure
>with whom you're arguing here: with me,

I think it is safe to assume that, because I replied to
*your* post, I'm very picky about *your reasoning*. Why?
Simply because your post sends the wrong message:

Let's assume that your post intended to provide a
definitive answer to the challenge announced by the subject
heading, that is, "Romania vs Rumania." And your main
conclusion is very clear: Romania is good, Rumania is
bad. Further let's assume that the structure of your post
follows the ordinary logical path: issue(s)-->facts
(eventually arguments)-->conclusion(s)-->corollary(-ies).

According to you, "ruma^n" was in the past used,
probably, by uneducated people. Therefore, the English
spelling "Rumania," probably somehow (you haven't been
exactly specific here) related to the uneducated
"ruma^n," is wrong, and those who use it find themselves
at risk of being labeled as uneducated. By contrast, I
guess, a user of "Romania," is definitely a "highly
educated fellow," a snob, according to other's opinion,
whose only accepted Bibles are The Wall Street Journal and
The New York Times.

Anyhow, it is important to emphasize that the
"uneducated" spellings (especially the Romanians "ruma~n-
rumi^n) have nothing to do with the evil influence of
Stambul, Petersburg, or Moscow, as a Dima-like type of
argument would suggest.

According to your reference search, *no entry* is
associated with "Rumania," which proves that this
spelling is at least obsolete and, therefore, it is wrong
to insist in using it. It took me 30 seconds to discover
that your homework deserves only a very generous C-.

Your statement "let alone the conspicuous and undeniable
roman origins of the Romanian nation" was meant to be
another supporting fact for the prevalence of "Romania"
over "Rumania." The immediate inference, for a neutral
observer, is that "Rumania" points to a different origin.
This is certainly misleading, isn't it?

Your facts, as I have shown, are not quite correct. Sure,
we can argue forever about how many relevant examples you
or I have provided, or about how important or less
important is the journal X or Y, but the bottom line is
that your conclusions and corollaries are as unwarranted
as your facts.

The title of the most recent textbook on Romanian history
published by Oxford University Press is "Rumania." Is
this example relevant? In my opinion it is. Is the author
uneducated? No, he is not. Is he using the wrong
spelling. No, because similar Romanian textbooks would
spell "Anglia" not "England," and "Franta" not "France."
And nobody would get cocky or nuts about this.

Is it that hard to accept that "Rumania" simply
represents a *translation* of "Romania" and nothing more?

[pathetic attempt of being funny deleted]

[impolite mentioning of my mother deleted]

>Yes, I'm convinced that the style books of the
>Ouagadougou Register and the Timbuktu Free Press
>stipulate that "Rumania" is the spelling of
>choice.

I don't assume I know all the important journals from the
scientific fields covered by my "Current Contents" search,
but I can very easily point to some which are recognized as
benchmarks in both North-America and West Europe. More
important, however, is the fact that Romanian scholars,
translating their work in English, have no restrains in
using the spelling-variant "Rumania."

>I limited my NEXIS search to major American and British
>newspapers and newsmagazines, though.

Yes, but at the top of your relevant sources was
"scholarly works," something that it is not published so
much in newspapers and newsmagazines. And what do you
mean by "major?" Within the context of the present issue,
"East European Politics and Societies, " "History of
European Ideas," or "American Historical Review" are more
"major" than "The Wall Street Journal."

>>Yeah, whatever... And the most categoric argument [for
>>the Daco-Romanian continuity] is the  spelling
>>"Romania," isn't it?

>No.

Then, as I already said, your corollary is unwarranted.

>Useless bit of trivia: Mr Iordache has edited out search
>result #23 of 30:  I wonder what was in there?

Don't wonder so much. You are not having a good day,
obviously, and I don't think is good for you to look in
open-mouthed for a long time period. You might
swallow something and hurt yourself.

Anyhow, to satisfy your appetite for knowledge, take a
glimpse at the famous entry #23.

       23 OF  30
 AU ZBOZEN-J.  RAFINSKI-J.
 TI A COMPARATIVE STUDY OF MITOTIC AND MEIOTIC CHROMOSOMES OF THE
    MONTANDON NEWT, TRITURUS-MONTANDONI (URODELA, SALAMANDRIDAE) FROM
    POLAND AND RUMANIA.
 SO GENETICA.  1993, V88, N1, P69-77.
    ISSN 0016-6707.

Liviu Iordache

##############                          
                        ####################                      
                     ##########################                    
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                 ()::__:::::::::::|::::::::::__::()
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              $$$$$$$::::::/:::::::::::::\:::::$$$$$$$        
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             $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$,,,,,,,$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$    
           $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$,,@,,$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$  
          
          
       
     WARNING*WARNING*WARNING*WARNING*WARNING*WARNING*WARNING*WARNING 
     
     ---Be sure to store all blood and blood products away from your 
     computer and diskettes when viewing this picture---

 (Wally Keeler) wrote:
     
     >Hi Christian. 
     >I somewhat shared your opinion that there appeared to be some 
     >connection between language/culture and Hungary's suicidal 
     >"achievment" but the information below seems to put an added clinker 
     >to the formula. 
     
     hey, welcome back, wally.  i hope you had a fullfilling trip.  insofar 
     the language/mentality/suicide link in hungary, i was actually 
     thinking out loud :-), bringing various hypotheses as possible 
     explanations.  it's obviously not that simple to come up with a 
     full_proof explanation - heck, it still puzzles sociologists and 
     psychologists alike.
     
     >I culled the info from our local newspapers.
     >[snip]....
     
     true - if you break the rates down by age_group, other countries have 
     higher rates. and
     
     >For two years running the UN has declared Canada the best place in 
     >which to live -- yet our youth kill themselves.
     
     trouble in paradise?  and how does the suicide rate of the youg 
     indigenous folks compare to the rest of the canadian teenagers?  
     
     >There is nothing to compare with Hungary -- no cultural connection 
     >beyond a tiny immigrant community. These are the complexities of 
     >human beings. And compared to living conditions in Romania, Canada is 
     >paradise, yet a far greater proportion of Canadian youth thinks 
     >otherwise.
     
     it is interesting to note that, generally speaking, the suicide rates 
     in the economically_advanced western countries are significantly 
     higher than for the less_developed countries.  it seems to me that as 
     people become wealthier, they develop an "addiction" or "obsession" 
     for material things, hence neglecting more_and_more genuine human 
     contact and true friendship.  so they become more_and_more alone (and 
     in spite of all superficial friendliness so pervasive in america, for 
     instance).  this created void in the soul can actually be more harmful 
     than poverty - at least if poor people help each other and maintain 
     human contact.
     
     as the hunchback parishioner told pastor ericsson in the film "winter 
     light" by ingmar bergman, that jesus must have suffered worse than one 
     can suffer in hell by knowing that all his disciples/friends have 
     abandoned him in the most trying hours of his calvary.....being ALONE 
     and with no true friends.....
     
     so getting anything one would want could ultimately mean getting 
     nothing at all.....
     
     -cristian
     
     ps: how about some more poems?

In article > , 
writes:
>What the fuck is this article doing in SCM?

Well, on USA pressure the Hungarian government will compensate
Hungarian Jews because of WWII. The sum that will be distributed
is estimated at 10-20 Md Ft (app. 80-160 mio $).

Tamas

In article >,  (Dan Pop) writes:
|> In >  (5 ) writes:
|> 
|> >The point is that the practice is still going on. 
|> 
|> Is it?  Care to give some concrete examples which happened after '89?

Yes, I already gave you an example - my son's name (Matei instead of Matyas...)
.
Now, one may claim that this is the fault of the local administration, because
the city halls are under their control. However if the practice is accepted by
the government, instead of being penalized, it can be considered that they
agree with it.

Another sad thing I have recently experienced is that the city hall would allow
the selling of "grave-places" in certain cemeteries (obviously the old ones, wh
ich
are still proofs that many Hungarians have lived there) are only sold to
Romanians. The weirdest thing about it is that nobody would tell you this at
the city hall - it is just the practice...

|> 
|> >Besides, a lot of Hungarian
|> >peasants in Transylvania voluntarily "Romanized" before WWI and this is whe
re
|> >most of the Hungarian-sounding names come from, such as Sabau, Covaci, Sute
u, 
|> >Astalos,... , 
|> 
|> Nice try.  Most people bearing those names come from Romanian families
|> with a Hungarian ancestor, not from Hungarian families.  I have a friend,
|> Doru Chis, who is a very good example (he can't even tell who was the
|> Hungarian ancestor in his family).

And what does this prove? Definitely not that his family didn't Romanize. 
As for the "try": there are accounts for the voluntary Romanization I wrote abo
ut.
The reason for it were some advantages offered for instance by the church... 

|> 
|> This explains why you can find considerably more Szabo's, Kovacs's, Suto's
|> and Asztalos's than Sabau's, Covaci's, Suteu's and Astalos's.

Did you make a statistic, for instance by taking a phone-book from a town where
the proportion of the Hungarian and Romanian inhabitants is about the same
(e.g. Marosvararhely/Targu Mures)? Not to speak about towns like Kolozsvar/Cluj
...
I doubt that it will support your statement. Try it the next time whenyou get
home. I'll do so.

|> 
|> BTW, I've read many times, in Romanian newspapers, that the real name of
|> Virgil Magureanu is Asztalos Imre (he's from Satu Mare).  Is he of
|> Hungarian origin, or...

:-) ... and that the real name of Gherghe Funar was Koteles. But hey, as somebo
dy
correctly mentioned the other day on s.c.r., Romanians  spend a huge amount of
energy explaining that every person in the Romanian history who did something 
"undefendably" bad was either Hungarian, or Jewish, or Greek, but never Romania
n

|> 
|> >while I the effect of claimed "Magyarization" between 1940-1944
|> >is not that visible.
|> 
|> It didn't last long enough :-)  Most Romanians affected by that "claimed"
|> Magyarization have changed their names afterwards (even if this involved,
|> in some cases, court decisions).
|> 

Yes, and many of the Hungarians did that as well because they thought it would 
be
to their advantage (history repeats itself). Most of these people denied that 
they have ever had any relations to the Hungarians (except for being persecuted
),
forgot the language, raised there children to be Romanians and they became the
greatest and most Romanian Romanians. These are facts and I can give examples
(not only the ones in the central committee of the communist parety), but it wa
s,
is and will be their problem and they have to live with it. You know Dan: ...
padurea fara uscaturi (this is just a Romanian saying about every forest having
its dead trees).

|> Dan
|> --
|> Dan Pop
|> CERN, CN Division
|> Email:  
|> Mail:  CERN - PPE, Bat. 31 R-004, CH-1211 Geneve 23, Switzerland


Matyas
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RE:
   From:            On: 10/05/95  01:12
Subject: SCM: yummy_yummy_tom_angi_yummy_yummy
Reply-To: 
The following is a self-portrait of Chris Tomescu after his
castration.  Beware this Rumanian is dagerous






                           ##############
                        ####################
                     ##########################
                    ############################
                   ##############################
                   ###############################
                  ####::::::::########::::::::####
                  ###:`**~~^^^:::##:::^^^~~**':###
                   #::::<""^XX>::::::<XX^"">::::#
                 /)::::::::""":::|::::"""::::::::(\
                 ()::__:::::::::::|::::::::::__::()
                 ():::::---..:::/..\:::..---:::::()
                  (:::::::::::::/...\::::::::::::)
                   ::::::::::::{.^|^.}:::::::::::
             $$$$$$$:::::::::(:::::::::)::::::::$$$$$$$
              $$$$$$$::::::/:::::::::::::\:::::$$$$$$$
                $$$$$$::::::eeeeeeeeeeee::::::$$$$$$
                  $$$$$::::ee| |eeee| |ee::::$$$$$
                   $$$$$::::::V::::::V::::::$$$$$
                    $$$$$::::::::::::::::::$$$$$
                     $$$$$$::::::::::::::$$$$$$
                       $$$$$$$::::::::$$$$$$$
                          $$$$$$$::$$$$$$$
                    $$$$$$$$$$$,,$$$,,,$$$$$$$$$
                 $$$$$$$$$$$$$$,,,@,,,,$$$$$$$$$$$$
             $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$,,,,,,,$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
           $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$,,@,,$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$



     WARNING*WARNING*WARNING*WARNING*WARNING*WARNING*WARNING*WARNING


     ---Be sure to store all blood and blood products away from your
     computer and diskettes when viewing this picture---

Gee, asshole, er I mean Chris Tomescu, we all know that Dracula was
a Rumanian.  Is this an example of projection? -- in other words, since
you talk so much about psychiatrists--you obviously need one yourself.

In simpler words you can understand, is this a picture of you?

Is this how you contracted HIV, or is it from all the little boys
you love?

RE:

tomescuc@h  SCM: yummy_yummy_tom_angi_yummy_yummy

> ---------------------------------------------------------

No, Tomescu, you'll have to stick with your little boy friends

In article >,
Steve Kovasznai  > wrote:
>Valaki vilagositson mar fel, hogy miert van ennyi roman a
>soc.culture.magyar newsgroup-on?
>kosz.
>kovi
Nem tudom. Talan mert mindig eltevednek a hataron.
  Gyuri

From:            On: 10/05/95  01:13
Subject: SCM: tom angi
Reply-To: 

     >From:  (Tom Angi)
     >Subject: SCM:  hates Hungarians

     >This guy hates all Hungarians.

     huh??.....assuming i am talking to a normal individual, where did you
     get this idea from?
     ----------------------------------------------------------------------

     >Chris Tomescu was forced to convert to Rumanianism by the Caecescu
     >government.

     >He was tortured and castrated.

     >He loves to tell the story.

     >Write him at 
     hmmm....i guess my assumption above was wrong.
     ----------------------------------------------------------------------

     conclusion:

     1.  m. dima has resurfaced as tom_angi, the new resident_imbecile of
     soc-culture-magyar.

     2.  he is in serious need of a psychiatrist.

     3.  he has ZERO sense_of_humor, intelligence, and wit.

     4.  it is pointless of paying him any more attention.

     -cristian


     ps: this " rU_vs_rO debate" (?) is absurd.

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

People who eat Prozac the way Tomescu does love to tell people they need
psychiatrists.  

I know my IQ, and I have no doubt that it is significantly higher than
this jerk's.

He was the one who missed my humor initially and started this crap.

He simply cannot get me out of his little Rumanian mind.

He was thrown out of SCR.  He hangs around SCM.  He was forced to
convert to Rumanianism.  This is what happens after castration.

If he's such a "big" Rumanian, why does he hang around here?

It is pointless to pay him any more attention.

FORWARDED FROM: /mail/am/am620(#5769) From:am620(Tom Angi)
FORWARDED FROM: /mail/am/am620(#5730) From:am620(Tom Angi)
FORWARDED FROM: /mail/am/am620(#5706) From:(Liviu Iordac
h
e)
From: Matthew Peter Muresan

>Yes, up to the late 1950s, the generally accepted
>spelling was Rumania[...] It was even in line with the
>way many (less educated probably) Romanians have called
>themselves for centuries ("rumi^n" -- just think of some
>ballads and other such folklore).

You might not be exactly correct here. What was the
spelling used by boyar Neacsu of Cimpulung, most
certainly one of the educated Romanians of the 16th
century?

Tseara ruma~neasca~!!!

How about the famous Prof.Nae Ionescu? What was the
spelling stressed in the columns of his 1930s newspaper
"Cuvintul?"

Not Roma^n, but Ruma^n!!!

>let alone the conspicuous and undeniable roman origins
>of the Romanian nation.

Yes, but as far as linguistic is concerned "Romanian" is
derived from "romanus" via "ruma~n" and not the other way
around. The evolutionary path, as correctly as it can be
reconstructed, is

romanus-->ruma~n-->rumi^n-->roma^n

Therefore, none of the above spellings contradicts the
Latin roots of the Romanian language. As a matter of
fact, I'm not aware of any theory that denies the Latin
roots of Romanians.

>That said, the one true measure of the generally
>accepted spelling of any word is the way it shows in
>scholarly works, in news magazines, and in dailies.  I
>can testify based on a great number of books ...
>agree on Romania as the correct spelling.  In fact, a
>NEXIS search [...] never returned Rumania as a response.

Well, my search speaks the contrary (see Appendix). Let's
stress here that many of the authors that still use the
English spelling "Rumania" are Romanians, working
currently in Romania, or researchers from abroad highly
trained in matters concerning Romanian history and,
therefore, aware of many of the Romanian nationalistic
phobias.

>Finally, I am not willing (and honestly hope that nobody
>else is either) to embark upon fighting any argument
>that would assert that the Daco-Roman continuity is
>bogus.  I think arguments in favour of that abound in
>such a fashion that denying said continuity is akin to
>saying that the Holocaust hasn't taken place.

Yeah, whatever... And the most categoric argument is the
spelling "Romania," isn't it? Anyhow I must have missed
something here. What is the connection between the Latin
origin of Romanian, the Holocaust, and the so-called
"Daco-Roman(ian)" theory? Not that I really care for an
answer, but I find your reasoning quite charming.

According to an ancient Chinese document, the Moon is
made up of green cheese. Denying this is like saying that
our Hungarian fellows are in no way related to Attila.

Liviu Iordache

Appendix

 SEARCH QUERY:
 RUMANIA
        1 OF  30
 AU CROMEN-E.  GREGORI-I.  SCHASHER-A.
 TI RUMANIA UNDERGOING RADICAL CHANGE - PROSPECTS AND PROBLEMS REGARDING
    EUROPEAN INTEGRATION - GERMAN - GREGORI,I, SCHASER,A.
 SO POLITISCHE-VIERTELJAHRESSCHRIFT.  1995, JUN, V36, N2, P319-327.
    ISSN 0032-3470.
        2 OF  30
 AU SARINGER-G.  TAKACS-A.
 TI BIOLOGY AND CONTROL OF TANYMECUS-DILATICOLLIS GYLL (COL,
    CURCULIONIDAE).
 SO ACTA-PHYTOPATHOLOGICA-ET-ENTOMOLOGICA-HUNGARICA.  1994, V29, N1-2,
    P173-185.
    ISSN 0238-1249.
 AB T. dilaticollis has long been a member of the Hungarian fauna, but
    publication on its damage only appeared in 1952.  In South-Eastern
    European countries first of all in Rumania, ......
        3 OF  30
 AU LANTERMANN-ED.  HANZE-M.
 TI VALUES AND MATERIAL SUCCESS OF RESETTLERS.
 SO ZEITSCHRIFT-FUR-SOZIALPSYCHOLOGIE.  1995, V26, N1, P15-23.
    ISSN 0044-3514.
 AB A causal two-step model for the development ....
    ....The model was
    tested with a structural equation model on the basis of interview
    data from 239 resettler families from Poland, ROUMANIA...
        4 OF  30
 AU PETKOVSKI-S.
 TI ON THE PRESENCE OF THE GENUS TANYMASTIX SIMON, 1886 (CRUSTACEA,
    ANOSTRACA) IN MACEDONIA.
 SO HYDROBIOLOGIA.  1995, FEB 24, V298, N1-3, P307-313.
    ISSN 0018-8158.
 AB The genus Tanymastix Simon, 1886 is represented in Macedonia by two
    species: Tanymastix stagnalis (Linnaeus, 1758) and Tanymastix motasi
    Orghidan, 1945. ... In
    T. motasi, the original description of the species, hitherto known
    only for the Giurgiu Region in RUMANIA, is supplemented by additional
    diagnostic characteristics.
        5 OF  30
 AU TEPPNER-H.  KLEIN-E.  DRESCHER-A.  ZAGULSKIJ-M.
 TI NIGRITELLA-CARPATICA (ORCHIDACEAE ORCHIDEAE) - A RELIC ENDEMIC OF THE
    EASTERN CARPATHIANS - TAXONOMY, DISTRIBUTION, KARYOLOGY AND
    EMBRYOLOGY.
 SO PHYTON-ANNALES-REI-BOTANICAE.  1994, V34, N2, P169+.
    ISSN 0079-2047.
 AB Nigritella carpatica (Zapalowicz) Teppner, Klein & Zagulskij, comb.
    nova, is described in full detail.....
    The species is endemic in the northwestern
    part of the East Carpathian Mountains and is known from six locations
    (in RUMANIA and the Ukraine)...
        6 OF  30
 AU PFISTER-T.  WEGMULLER-U.
 TI UPPER MARINE MOLASSE, MIDDLE BURDIGALIAN NEAR BERNE, SWITZERLAND .1.
    PALAEOTAXODONTA AND PTERIOMORPHIA PRO-PARTE.
 SO ECLOGAE-GEOLOGICAE-HELVETIAE.  1994, V87, N3, P895-973.
    ISSN 0012-9402.
 AB The rich and diverse macrofauna of the Belpbergschichten
    ......... The location of the area at the transition
    from the Central Paratethys (E-Bavaria to Ukraine and RUMANIA)
        7 OF  30
 AU NASCU-HI.  COMSULEA-DI.  NIAC-G.
 TI THE DISTRIBUTION OF INORGANIC ELEMENTS BETWEEN COAL AND MINERAL
    MATTER IN RUMANIAN LIGNITE.
 SO FUEL.  1995, JAN, V74, N1, P119-123.
    ISSN 0016-2361.
        8 OF  30
 AU BOHM-H.
 TI A BACH ACADEMY IN RUMANIA.
 SO MUSIK-UND-KIRCHE.  1994, SEP-OCT, V64, N5, P303-303.
    ISSN 0027-4771.
        9 OF  30
 AU DELETANT-D.
 TI THE GREAT-POWERS AND RUMANIA, 1944-1946 - A STUDY OF THE EARLY
    COLD-WAR ERA - SAIU,L.
 SO SLAVONIC-AND-EAST-EUROPEAN-REVIEW.  1994, JUL, V72, N3, P562-563.
    ISSN 0037-6795.
       10 OF  30
 AU LAZARESCU-M.  ARDELEANU-V.  JIANU-A.
 TI STUDY ON THE REACTIVE PSYCHOSIS OCCURRED DURING THE REVOLUTION OF
    DECEMBER 1989 - TIMISOARA, RUMANIA.
 SO EUROPEAN-JOURNAL-OF-PSYCHIATRY.  1993, OCT-DEC, V7, N4, P219-228.
    ISSN 0213-6163.
       11 OF  30
 AU DELETANT-D.
 TI RUMANIA, 1866-1947 - HITCHINS,K.
 SO TLS-THE-TIMES-LITERARY-SUPPLEMENT.  1994, JUL 22, N4764, P26-26.
    ISSN 0307-661X.
       12 OF  30
 AU SNEDEKER-DC.
 TI NATIONALISM AND THE MILITARY IN THE 1990S - THE UNIQUE CASE OF
    RUMANIA.
 SO HISTORY-OF-EUROPEAN-IDEAS.  1994, MAR, V18, N2, P241-254.
    ISSN 0191-6599.
       13 OF  30
 AU PERPERE-M.
 TI THE PALEOLITHIC AND NEOLITHIC OF RUMANIA IN A EUROPEAN CONTEXT -
    FRENCH - CHIRICA,V, MONAH,D.
 SO ANTHROPOLOGIE.  1993, V97, N2-3, P542-542.
    ISSN 0003-5521.
       14 OF  30
 AU BORONEANT-V.
 TI NEW DATA ON ANTHROPOLOGICAL DISCOVERIES FROM SCHELA-CLADOVEI,
    DROBETA-TURNU SEVERIN (RUMANIA).
 SO ANTHROPOLOGIE.  1993, V97, N2-3, P511-514.
    ISSN 0003-5521.
       15 OF  30
 AU PELISEK-J.
 TI QUATERNARY SEDIMENTS IN THE AREA OF MAMAIA-SAT, RUMANIA, ON THE BLACK
    SEA SHORELINE.
 SO ANTHROPOLOGIE.  1993, V97, N2-3, P265-270.
    ISSN 0003-5521.
       16 OF  30
 AU VALOCH-K.
 TI THE INDUSTRIES OF THE MIDDLE PALAEOLITHIC SITE MAMAIA-SAT (RUMANIA)
 SO ANTHROPOLOGIE.  1993, V97, N2-3, P239-264.
    ISSN 0003-5521.
       17 OF  30
 AU URBAN-W.
 TI THE GREAT-POWERS AND RUMANIA, 1944-1946 - A STUDY OF THE EARLY
    COLD-WAR ERA - SAIU,L.
 SO JOURNAL-OF-BALTIC-STUDIES.  1993, FAL, V24, N3, P315-315.
    ISSN 0162-9778.
       18 OF  30
 AU PRADO-C.  GOMEZLOBO-P.
 TI ANTHROPOLOGY AS A PREDICTOR OF RISK FACTORS ON CARDIOVASCULAR
    DISEASES - ADOLESCENT PERIOD.
 SO COLLEGIUM-ANTROPOLOGICUM.  1993, DEC, V17, N2, P297-303.
    ISSN 0350-6134.
 AB ......
    where the morbi-mortality due to cardiovascular diseases has most
    positive.  Spain is, together with RUMANIA, the European country
    where the morbi-mortality due to cardiovascular diseases has most
    augmented.
       19 OF  30
 AU MICHELSON-PE.
 TI THE GREAT POWERS AND RUMANIA, 1944-1946 - A STUDY OF THE EARLY COLD
    WAR ERA - SAIU,L.
 SO AMERICAN-HISTORICAL-REVIEW.  1993, DEC, V98, N5, P1577-1577.
    ISSN 0002-8762.
       20 OF  30
 AU KELLOGG-F.
 TI THE GREAT POWERS AND RUMANIA, 1944-1946 - A STUDY OF THE EARLY
    COLD-WAR ERA - SAIU,L.
 SO SLAVIC-REVIEW.  1993, FAL, V52, N3, P612-613.
    ISSN 0037-6779.
       21 OF  30
 AU KIRATZI-AA.
 TI ACTIVE DEFORMATION IN THE VRANCEA REGION, RUMANIA.
 SO PURE-AND-APPLIED-GEOPHYSICS.  1993, V140, N3, P391-402.
    ISSN 0033-4553.
       22 OF  30
 AU AVRAM-E.  SZASZ-L.  ANTONESCU-E.  BALTRES-A.  IVA-M.  MELINTE-M.
    NEAGU-T.  RADAN-S.  TOMESCU-C.
 TI CRETACEOUS TERRESTRIAL AND SHALLOW MARINE DEPOSITS IN NORTHERN
    SOUTH-DOBROGEA (SE RUMANIA).
 SO CRETACEOUS-RESEARCH.  1993, JUN, V14, N3, P265-305.
    ISSN 0195-6671.
       24 OF  30
 AU FISCHER-ME.
 TI 20TH-CENTURY RUMANIA - FISCHERGALATI,S.
 SO SLAVIC-REVIEW.  1993, SPR, V52, N1, P139-140.
    ISSN 0037-6779.
       25 OF  30
 AU CETERCHI-I.
 TI INSTITUTIONAL PROBLEMS OF TRANSITION IN RUMANIA.
 SO REVUE-D-ETUDES-COMPARATIVES-EST-OUEST.  1992, DEC, V23, N4, P89-126
    ISSN 0338-0599.
       26 OF  30
 AU SIMONIC-A.  VRHOVAC-B.
 TI CLINICAL PHARMACOLOGY IN EASTERN EUROPEAN COUNTRIES.
 SO INTERNATIONAL-JOURNAL-OF-CLINICAL-PHARMACOLOGY-THERAPY-AND-
    TOXICOLOGY.  1993, JUN, V31, N6, P301-308.
    ISSN 0174-4879.
 AB The current ...
    It is mainly basic in only a few
    countries (RUMANIA, Turkey,
       27 OF  30
 AU PEARTON-M.
 TI THE GREAT POWERS AND RUMANIA 1944-1946 - A STUDY OF THE EARLY
    COLD-WAR ERA - SAIU,L.
 SO EUROPE-ASIA-STUDIES.  1993, V45, N3, P567-568.
    ISSN 0038-5859.
       28 OF  30
 AU LABARONNE-D.
 TI THE RUMANIAN ECONOMY IN TRANSITION TO A MARKET ECONOMY - ECONOMIC AND
    INSTITUTIONAL REFORMS.
 SO REVUE-D-ETUDES-COMPARATIVES-EST-OUEST.  1992, JUN-SEP, V23, N2-3,
    P105-136.
       29 OF  30
 AU BIRZEA-C.
 TI THE ISSUE OF POPULATION IN RUMANIA.
 SO INTERNATIONAL-REVIEW-OF-EDUCATION.  1993, MAR, V39, N1-2, P133-136
       30 OF  30
 AU VANEV-SG.  NEGREAN-G.
 TI RAMULARIA-BISCUTELIAE, SP-NOV.
 SO MYCOTAXON.  1993, JAN-MAR, V46, JAN-, P35-36.
 AB .......
       During taxonomic investigations of some undetermined Hyphomycetous
    specimens deposited in the Mycological Herbarium of the Institute of
    Biological Sciences, Bucharest, RUMANIA (BUCM),....

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-----FORWARDER'S COMMENTS:
What does this have to do with Magyar society and culture?

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-----FORWARDER'S COMMENTS:
This guys still here.  Get thee to SCR!

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-----FORWARDER'S COMMENTS:
It is rUmania after all.

In article >,
Gabor Barsai > wrote:
>In article >,
>Tom Angi > wrote:
>
>>Get a life.  Some of us don't have to read pornography.
>   |                         |
>  OK.                And who may those "some of us" be? (If you want me to
>                    believe you've never read a "girlie mag", well, maybe it's
>                     you who should get a life. My Dad reads them, he's almost
>                    70, the dirty old man. I also like Pamela Anderson's body,
>                     shame on me.)
>************ stuff deleted *********************
>Gabor

C'mon Gabor, Samantha Fox is much better looking! I also like Jessica Hahn! I 
start to agree with you that we should have more threads about this than 
Rumania. Except would it be soc or culture?
Gyuri

RE:

     To: /mail/am/am620                    Msg #: 5872      Size: 285/10
   From:  (Steve Kovasznai) On: 10/05/95  08:38
Subject: SCM: mi ez, soc.culture.magyar vagy soc.culture.r
Reply-To: 

Valaki vilagositson mar fel, hogy miert van ennyi roman a
soc.culture.magyar newsgroup-on?
kosz.
kovi

--------------------------------

1)butak.  azt hiszik, hogy ez soc-culture-ruman

2)soc-culture-ruman unalmas

3)elromanosodott magyarok?

4)elromanosodott ciganyok?

tamas

What the fuck is this article doing in SCM?
					
					gff

In article >,  writes:
> What the fuck is this article doing in SCM?
> 					
> 					gff
> 

sorry, please delete every word starting with an "f"

					gff