OMRI: Daily Digest, Vol. 2, No. 233, 96-12-04

Vol. 2, No. 233, 4 December 1996

CONTENTS

[B] SOUTHEASTERN EUROPE
[05] BELGRADE CLAMPS DOWN ON INDEPENDENT RADIO STATION.
[06] CROATIAN RAIL WORKERS HALT ALL TRAINS.
[07] CROATIAN PRESIDENT IN EASTERN SLAVONIA.
[08] EXPULSIONS CONTINUE IN BOSNIA.
[09] CALL FOR JUSTICE ON BOSNIAN WAR CRIMES.
[10] WASHINGTON WARNS SERBIA.
[11] MASS PROTESTS CONTINUE IN SERBIA.
[12] NATIONAL STRIKE IN BULGARIA.
[13] MOLDOVA'S OUTGOING PRESIDENT URGES RUSSIAN TROOPS WITHDRAWAL.
[14] MOLDOVAN PARLIAMENT ACCEPTS CABINET RESIGNATION.
[15] ROMANIAN PRESIDENT, HUNGARIAN PREMIER DISCUSS BILATERAL RELATIONS.
[16] LOCAL ELECTION RESULTS IN MACEDONIA.
[17] ALBANIA CHARGES MONTENEGRO WITH BLOCKING RAILROAD LINE.
[18] ALBANIAN COURT SENTENCES COMMUNIST-ERA OFFICIALS.
-
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
[B] SOUTHEASTERN EUROPE

[05] BELGRADE CLAMPS DOWN ON INDEPENDENT RADIO STATION.

In another effort to muzzle the independent media and thwart the ongoing
peaceful protests in Serbia, the Belgrade authorities have taken Radio B
92
off the air. The radio station has been giving extensive coverage to the
protests. B 92 Editor Veran Matic told reporters that the station received
a letter from the federal Ministry of Transport and Communications saying
that B-92 does not have the necessary authorization to broadcast. The
student-run Radio Index has also been taken off the air. VOA reported
today
that B 92 is continuing to broadcast on VOA's Serbian-language
frequencies.
- -- Stan Markotich

[06] CROATIAN RAIL WORKERS HALT ALL TRAINS.

The railroad union has shut down the country's railroad network, accusing
the state railroads management of blacklisting and firing workers who took
part in a general strike six days ago (see _OMRI Daily Digest_, 3 December
1996), _Novi List_ reported on 4 December. Union President Zlatko Pavletic
said only army trains will continue to run if needed. He added that all
other traffic will be suspended until the rail worker who was sacked on 2
December for continuing to strike is reinstated. The railroads management
has denied threatening or sacking workers who refused to sign written
statements criticizing the strike. Meanwhile, Hungarian Television (MTV)
said some 600 freight cars have been held up on the Croatian-Hungarian
border owing to the strike, Reuters reported on 3 December. MTV added that
rail traffic between the two countries has virtually ground to a halt. --
Daria Sito Sucic

[07] CROATIAN PRESIDENT IN EASTERN SLAVONIA.

For the first time since 1991, Franjo Tudjman has visited the last Serb-
held territory in Croatia, international and local media reported on 3
December. Speaking in the region's main town of Vukovar, the Croatian
symbol of war-time suffering, Tudjman said his visit as president of
Croatia is a sign that peaceful reintegration is on the right track,
_Vecernji List_ reported. He added that his visit is a signal for Croatian
refugees that they should return to their homes and for local Serbs that
they should opt for the Croatian state. Tudjman met with UN administrator
for eastern Slavonia Jacques Klein and with a group of local Serbian
officials. -- Daria Sito Sucic

[08] EXPULSIONS CONTINUE IN BOSNIA.

The UN reported that over 30 Muslims have been driven from their homes in
the Bosanska Gradiska area of northern Bosnia over the past ten weeks,
_Oslobodjenje_ noted on 4 December. Their property is being taken by Serbs
whose former homes in Donji Vakuf are now under federal control. A report
by Human Rights Watch says that Serbian paramilitaries were involved in
the
expulsions and that the local authorities did nothing to stop them.
Meanwhile, the Helsinki Committee for Human Rights noted in its latest
newsletter that the campaign to force Serbs to leave Ilidza is continuing.
One man noted that "after every quarrel or beating, four or five Serb
houses are sold cheap." -- Patrick Moore

[09] CALL FOR JUSTICE ON BOSNIAN WAR CRIMES.

The International Crisis Group--an NGO consisting of prominent people and
headed by former U.S. Senator George Mitchell--has called for tough
measures against war criminals. Noting that the big fish are still on the
loose, it wants IFOR to receive a mandate to arrest indicted individuals,
the VOA reported on 3 December. The ICG urges donors to withhold aid from
any country or locality that harbors war criminals and to give the money
instead to the underfunded Hague-based war crimes tribunal instead. --
Patrick Moore

[10] WASHINGTON WARNS SERBIA.

U.S. press spokesman Michael McCurry said on 3 December that Washington
could retaliate against Belgrade in the wake of the clampdown on two
independent radio stations. He noted that the U.S. still maintains its own
"outer wall" of sanctions against federal Yugoslavia and could block that
country's return to international organizations, AFP reported. Washington
is also working to prevent EU countries from extending trade benefits to
Belgrade at a meeting slated for 6 December, the BBC reported on 4
December. State Department spokesman Nicholas Burns said that "the Serbian
government has painted itself into a corner," the VOA noted. Numerous
international journalists' organizations and other NGOs have joined in the
protest. Milosevic's Socialist Party of Serbia rejected the complaints,
arguing that "elections in a country are above all a domestic matter," AFP
reported. -- Patrick Moore

[11] MASS PROTESTS CONTINUE IN SERBIA.

For the 15th consecutive day, mass demonstrations took place throughout
Serbia to protest the authorities' decision to nullify the results of last
month's run-off municipal elections, _Nasa Borba_ reported on 4 December.
An estimated 100,000 people again gathered in Belgrade. Demonstration
organizers have vowed to continue with the protest action until all
second-
round municipal election returns are "honored." Meanwhile, Belgrade's
electoral commission has questioned the legality of the nullification of
the election results, which showed the opposition _Zajedno_ coalition
winning in the 12 largest municipalities. AFP on 3 December reported that
the commission has sent a letter to authorities outlining its position.
CNN
on 4 December reported that the regime is stepping up the police presence
at demonstrations. -- Stan Markotich

[12] NATIONAL STRIKE IN BULGARIA.

The Confederation of the Independent Trade Unions in Bulgaria (KNSB) has
called a 24-hour national strike for 4 December, Reuters and local media
reported. Some 1 million people--mostly miners, teachers, and light
industry workers--are expected to support the strike. KNSB spokesman
Snezhana Lyubenova said the action is to protest "incompetence and
corruption within [Premier] Zhan Videnov's Socialist cabinet." The KNSB
believes that the strike will help force early parliamentary elections.
Another large trade union confederation, _Podkrepa_, has urged its members
to join the strike if they wish, but it has not given its official
backing.
Some opposition parties have also expressed their "moral support,"
_Kontinent_ noted. -- Maria Koinova

[13] MOLDOVA'S OUTGOING PRESIDENT URGES RUSSIAN TROOPS WITHDRAWAL.

Mircea Snegur, addressing the OSCE summit in Lisbon on 3 December, urged
Russia to withdraw its troops from eastern Moldova, BASA-press reported.
He
complained that Moscow has not "honored the commitments" laid down in an
October 1994 bilateral agreement. The troops withdrawal was a key factor
to
finding a peaceful settlement to the Dniester conflict, he added. Snegur
also appealed to the summit to issue a "political declaration" on "the
current state of affairs" in Moldova. The 1994 Russian-Moldovan accord has
not yet been ratified by the Russian State Duma. -- Dan Ionescu

[14] MOLDOVAN PARLIAMENT ACCEPTS CABINET RESIGNATION.

The parliament on 3 December unanimously accepted the resignation of
Andrei
Sangheli's government, BASA-press and Infotag reported the same day. It
also asked the government to continue carrying out its duties until a new
cabinet has been formed. Before the 1 December presidential run-off,
Sangheli had said his government would resign immediately after the
run-off
results had been released in order "to allow the new president to form a
cabinet with which he can cooperate in a more efficient way." Meanwhile,
President-elect Petru Lucinschi described the cabinet's decision to step
back as "just," arguing that Sangheli had not been "frank" about his
ministers' mistakes. -- Dan Ionescu

[15] ROMANIAN PRESIDENT, HUNGARIAN PREMIER DISCUSS BILATERAL RELATIONS.

Emil Constantinescu and Gyula Horn, meeting in Lisbon on 3 December during
the OSCE summit, agreed that Romania's new foreign minister will visit
Hungary soon, Romanian media reported the same day. Horn said that the
Hungarian parliament will ratify the friendship treaty next week. That
document was signed in September and ratified by Romania in October. The
previous day, Horn had noted that Hungary backs Romania's efforts to
achieve EU and NATO integration, and he had offered to "do [his] utmost to
fulfill [that] goal." Constantinescu said Romania has the "historic
chance"
to become a stabilizing factor in the region. He added that all neighbors
are "viewed as partners and not competitors" on the road toward
integration. -- Zsolt Mato

[16] LOCAL ELECTION RESULTS IN MACEDONIA.

Preliminary results show that 114 of the country's 123 mayors have so far
been elected following last week's local ballot, MILS reported on 3
December. The governing Social Democratic Alliance won 52 mayoralties, the
right-wing opposition coalition 28, and the ethnic Albanian Party of
Democratic Prosperity 12, plus one in coalition with the Democratic
People's Party (PDP). The Party of Democratic Prosperity of the Albanians
won only four mayoral mandates plus three in coalition with the PDP. The
Socialists won three, the Turkish Democratic Party two, and the Serbian
Democratic Party and the Party for Full Emancipation of the Roma one each.
Returns have still to come in from Valandovo, Ohrid, Prilep, and
Probishtip. -- Fabian Schmidt

[17] ALBANIA CHARGES MONTENEGRO WITH BLOCKING RAILROAD LINE.

Albanian authorities have criticized Montenegro for refusing to unblock
the
Shkoder-Podgorica railroad line, international agencies reported on 3
December. The link has been closed for more than three years owing to
international sanctions imposed against the federal Yugoslavia. The
Albanian railroads have repaired their part of the line and are ready to
reopen it. The line was scheduled to have opened at the beginning of this
year. Local traders and the Albanian economy have suffered considerable
losses as a result of the closure. Completed in August 1986, the Shkoder-
Podgorica line is Albania's only connection with the international
railroad
system. -- Fabian Schmidt<strong>

[18] ALBANIAN COURT SENTENCES COMMUNIST-ERA OFFICIALS.

A Tirana court has sentenced communist-era Interior Minister Vladimir Hysi
to 18 months in prison, _Zeri i Popullit_ reported on 4 December.__ Irakli
Kocollari, former chief of the communist secret service, was given a six-
year sentence. The two men were charged with abuse of office for ordering
the destruction of secret service files. They argued that the files had
been put away for a limited period only and that the deadline for keeping
them in storage had expired. Kocollari is still facing charges for human
rights abuses committed when he was working for the secret services in
Korca. -- Fabian Schmidt
-
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
This material was reprinted with permission of the Open Media
Research Institute, a nonprofit organization with research offices in
Prague, Czech Republic.
For more information on OMRI publications please write to .


------------------------------

End of omri-digest V1 #261
**************************

[Posted and mailed]

In article >,
        Peter k Chong > writes:
> Olvastam, hogy Nadia Comaneci (Kemenes Ilona) egy magyar apja van
> (Gheorgie Comaneci - Kemenes Gyvrgy) is ezirt Ilona egy filszarmasz
> magyar. De azt nem hittem... Nadia Comaneci (fil)-magyar szarmasz
> ember-e? Rigen hallottam ezt. Mig nem biztos vagyok.
>
> Peter Chong
>
> Ui. Mi tvrtint Ilonaval 1980 utan? Kmvancsi vagyok...

 I only answer because you sent me this message also via e-mail.

1. You should know that "Ilona" has nothing to do with "Nadia". It would
translate as "Elena" in Romanian. So much about precision.

2. The Kemenes - Comaneci connection has proved to be nonexistent up
to now, aside from the possibility of common origin for the two names,
which has nothing to do with the ethnical origin of the person wearing
it.

3. In 1981 Nadia has still won at the Universiade, after that she
retired, in 1989 she left the country and today she lives in the USA
together with his husband, Burt Conner (also gymnast), whom she
married this year in Bucharest.

4. When looking for Hungarian connections in the Romanian gymnastics,
I really wonder why nobody cares about Kati Szabo, definitely not so
famous as Nadia, but still winner of countless medals in European and
World Championships, and winner of 3 or 4 gold medals at the Los
Angeles Olympic games in 1984? Now, what happened to her???

Zoli
--
http://dipmza.physik.uni-mainz.de/~gagyi_palffy/homepage.html

>
> BEGIN -- Cut Here -- cut here
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>
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>
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>
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>
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>
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>
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>
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>
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>
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>
>
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> !!!!!!!!!!
>
> END -- Cut Here -- cut here

Slobodan Milosevic is losing his grip on power in Yugoslavia.  He is a man
who understands power and has no second thoughts about using it.  I just
hope he doesn't use it against his own people.  If he does, there'll be
another Balkan tragedy.

It's my guess that Milosevic will be gone within a week.

Joe Szalai

-cut: it is so hopeless, when you don't make an effort to
understand an other point of view -

I don't know who you call the heros of marxism, I think Marx was one of
them, and I don't think he was aware, how his theory would be twisted
about in the future.
Take a note: capitalism is not democratic. But you like it - just
like any "nomenklatura" that had found nothing missing from
the "existed socialism".

> Well, Eva, I think there is no way out. No democratical change is
> possible and the heroes of marxism were aware of this. And if you
> have a dictatorship (whatever covername you introduce for it), it
> is almost impossible to end up with a democracy. I think this is
> the doom no.1 for marxism.
>
> J.Zs
>

> <<<<<<<<<<<
> Eva please tell us why there is nsomething wrong with market-economics ala
> US/Portugal(?) for Hungary?

Well, yes. Both of the places you mention have a large population
under the poverty line, while wealth is concentrated in smaller and
smaller elites, and power belongs to the multinational corporation, so
people feel powerless and far from being decisionmaking democratic
citizens. If US is doing better than Portugal, it is due to its
enourmous arm industry and dominence of the world markets - though
apperantly still not good enough dominance - those pushy asians are
taking it all away...


 What is wrong with IMF/WB or NATO demanding
> certain conditions? If one gives money to someone does one have the right
> to require how that money is spent?

Interesting you should say that. You were most upset, when the USSR
demanded a few things as an "ally" - where is the demand for
"independence" and "freedom" now?

 [Perhaps you should go to a bank and
> ask for a huge loan - which  you can barely repay - and see what they
> have to tell you!]

As it happened, they are happy to lend more than you are able to pay
back. See Hungary and most other countries - and my mortgage...


> They told HU that their cost of
> social welfare ratios of most countries. It must be reduced, ditto with
> inflation, and govt size.  Yet really nothing has happened after ALL the
> promises HU has made. It is BIG politcal nut that someone has to crack!
>

In that case, why you copy any complaint of the opposition about
poverty? You want even more poverty to comply with the IMF?


> BTW, I am also surprised, that after leaving HU you still maintain your
> alleagce to socialism, but perhaps in the birthplace of Marx it is
> difficult to see the trees from the forest.
>
> Peter Soltesz
>

OK, let's get personal.
1. Marx was not born in England
2. We lived in Hungary in the 80s longer than you, and only returned
    here due to family reasons. I am still a Hungarian citizen.

On Sat, 5 Dec 1992, Durant wrote:
<SNIP>
> Well, yes. Both of the places you mention have a large population
> under the poverty line, while wealth is concentrated in smaller and
> smaller elites, and power belongs to the multinational corporation, so
> people feel powerless and far from being decisionmaking democratic
> citizens. If US is doing better than Portugal, it is due to its
> enourmous arm industry and dominence of the world markets - though
> apperantly still not good enough dominance - those pushy asians are
> taking it all away...
Some monetary power belongs perhaps to multinationals. However, it is
still the people that reatin the power in democracies. That is provided
that they actually go and vote and excercise their intelligence!

I do not understand your referecne to IF the US is doing better than
Portugal? Your perhaps arbitrary "poverty line" definition....I do not
see how one can even comapre US vs. Portugal. They are apples and oranges!

Your last comment shows that you are also a racist.

> >  What is wrong with IMF/WB or NATO demanding
> > certain conditions? If one gives money to someone does one have the right
> > to require how that money is spent?
>
> Interesting you should say that. You were most upset, when the USSR
> demanded a few things as an "ally" - where is the demand for
> "independence" and "freedom" now?

Perhaps you can refresh my memory here. However, I was stricktly talking
about the loans that the IMF/WB or countries can and should ask for prior
to lending the money. Perhaps HU does not need the money? Who is really
benefiting from it? Not the people I am sure!
>
> As it happened, they are happy to lend more than you are able to pay
> back. See Hungary and most other countries - and my mortgage...
Most banks will not lend you mortgage money unless they have the
requesite collateral to assure that they are not going wind up holding
the bag!
>
> In that case, why you copy any complaint of the opposition about
> poverty? You want even more poverty to comply with the IMF?

No I do not, one should ask what is the money being used for??????
Where did it all go?

> 1. Marx was not born in England
> 2. We lived in Hungary in the 80s longer than you, and only returned
>     here due to family reasons. I am still a Hungarian citizen.

Yes you are right Eva, Marx was born in Prussia, but let me expand upon
the English connection:
.... all the scientific work which Engels and particularly Marx had performed
from 1845 to the end of 1847. During this period Engels succeeded in
getting into shape the material he had collected for his Condition of the
Working Class in England, and Marx laboured over the history of political
and economic thought.
+++++++++++++++++++++
Hugh Jass Friedrich Engels
German Social Philosopher and Revolutionary
1820-1895

     With Karl [1]MARX, a founder of modern COMMUNISM and SOCIALISM, he
     was the son of a textile manufacturer, and after managing a factory
     in Manchester, England, he wrote his first major work, The
     Condition of the Working Class in England in 1844 (1845). In 1844
     he met Marx in Paris, beginning a lifelong collaboration . He and
     Marx wrote the Communist Manifesto (1848) and other works that
     predicted the inevitable triumph of the working class. When the
     REVOLUTIONS OF 1848 failed, Engels settled in England. With Marx he
     helped found (1864) the International Workingmen's Association.
Engels's financial aid enabled Marx to devote himself to writing
     Das Kapital (3 vol., 1867-94); after his death Engels edited vol. 2
     and 3 from Marx's drafts and notes. Engels had enormous influence
     on the theories of MARXISM and DIALECTICAL MATERIALISM.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Thank you,
Peter Soltesz

On Fri, 6 Dec 1996, Joe Szalai wrote:

> Slobodan Milosevic is losing his grip on power in Yugoslavia.  He is a man
> who understands power and has no second thoughts about using it.  I just
> hope he doesn't use it against his own people.  If he does, there'll be
> another Balkan tragedy.
>
> It's my guess that Milosevic will be gone within a week.
>
> Joe Szalai
>
Joe, as much as I would like to see him go for the good of people in
Yugoslavia, don't get the hopes up too early. Because the US wants a pawn
to help make the Bosnia accord happen (or at least appear that something
is happening), he may find help in rather odd places.

He has reopened the two small stations that were shut down earlier. I
doubt that will give much more and it wouldn't surprise me if there were
crackdowns on a mass scale beore the end of a week.

by the way, does anyone know if the demonstrations have moved northward to
Ujvidek/Novi Sad or Szabadka/Subotica? Or is the Magyar minority in
voivodina simply watchng at the moment, albeit with great patience?

Darren Purcell
Department of Geography
Florida State University

At 07:58 PM 12/5/96 -0500, Peter Soltesz wrote:
>I flew one of those from
>Munich to Ireland to Gander/Newfoundland to New York. It was the only way
>they can hop across the big pond! I think it took a total of 18 hours!
>Times have changed! Eh?

        Yes, I remember 20 hours all told!

        Eva Balogh

At 07:27 AM 12/6/96 -0500, Joe Szalai wrote:

>It's my guess that Milosevic will be gone within a week.

        I hop you're right! Eva Balogh

On Fri, 6 Dec 1996, Lajos MONOKI wrote:
> >I am quite surprised that very few people responded (especially form
> >Hungary!). Are the people there such sheep that they  do not even think
> >about things that affect their daily life or are things so engrained that
> >it is useless to try??
> >Peter
> No, they are not "such sheep". Maybe you didn't notice, but most of the
> members of this list are Hungarians living in USA, Canada or other
> countries, *not* in Hungary.
I was hoping that more Hungarians would be also concerned about this
abrigation of their rights!
Peter

On Fri, 6 Dec 1996, Eva Durant wrote:
> Is this clapping on landing a new custom?
> I've never experienced it, I haven't been on a
> MALEV light for about 4 years.
> I've heard from a collegue, that bulgarian
> flights have this feature, in fact he said, standing ovation.
> 

It is only a custom in general if one had a rough trip or
difficult landing in storms, winds, turbulance, etc.
However, the one on MALEV it occurs usually when Hungarians
are on the plane (Not those living outside the borders).

I suppose in the age of poor maintenance - typical of the Soviet block -
any landing without a crash deserves applause!
Peter Soltesz

Is this clapping on landing a new custom?
I've never experienced it, I haven't been on a
MALEV light for about 4 years.
I've heard from a collegue, that bulgarian
flights have this feature, in fact he said, standing ovation.

Lajos:
Please see my later response re: the definition of rotate in airplanes.
Of course the engines rotate, but that is NOT what we are talking about!
Peter

On Fri, 6 Dec 1996, Eva Durant wrote:

> Is this clapping on landing a new custom?
> I've never experienced it, I haven't been on a
> MALEV light for about 4 years.
> I've heard from a collegue, that bulgarian
> flights have this feature, in fact he said, standing ovation.
> 
>

After flying from Kiev to Budapest the same thng happened. Of course, i
also think I heard the same sounds coming from an Austrian Air flight from
Viena to Odessa.

may all our travel iover the holidays be safe, and applause worthy.

Darren Purcell

At 10:57 AM 12/6/96 -0500, Eva Balogh wrote:

>At 07:27 AM 12/6/96 -0500, Joe Szalai wrote:
>
>>It's my guess that Milosevic will be gone within a week.
>
>        I hope you're right! Eva Balogh

I hope so too.  I find it unusual that the demonstrations in Balgrade have
gone on for as long as they have.  In most cases, especially in Eastern
Europe, the "authorities" whould have moved against the demonstrators by
now.  It's also interesting that the demonstrators haven't been emboldened
by their growing numbers to force the issue.

Joe Szalai

.
> Some monetary power belongs perhaps to multinationals. However, it is
> still the people that reatin the power in democracies. That is provided
> that they actually go and vote and excercise their intelligence!
>

Is it really an exercise in intelligence to choose between
the candidates? What conclusion you draw from Reagan been
president for eight years? I suggest, however genius a candidate
would be, no intelligent or otherwise electorate would know anything
about it, if he didn't have a few million dollars of the beautiful
people to back him. You have a somewhat distorted notion about
democracy, nearly as deformed as a stalinist's - they were voting
too, you know - and had about as much choice...


> Your last comment shows that you are also a racist.
>

sorry, I deleted the bit you are refering to, but it was obvious to
me, that I was repeating the sentiments of some - yes, racist
americans, who blame any economics hickups of their country's economy
on other people. More sarcasm lost...



> Perhaps you can refresh my memory here. However, I was stricktly talking
> about the loans that the IMF/WB or countries can and should ask for prior
> to lending the money. Perhaps HU does not need the money? Who is really
> benefiting from it? Not the people I am sure!
>

Well, if it comes with strings attached, such as cuts in public
spending, and with more spent on servicing debts, than anything else,
than the people are not benefitting, for sure! Most international
loan seem to finance imports and grants to encourage
more profit being made for international corporations.



> Most banks will not lend you mortgage money unless they have the
> requesite collateral to assure that they are not going wind up holding
> the bag!
>

But it is not like that in real life. Countries all over the world
are suffering under unservicable debts, the net flow of money is from
the poor to the rich - as always.
Here in the UK the house repossessions by banks and building
societies run in the hundred thousands  yearly.


> one should ask what is the money being used for??????
> Where did it all go?
>

Like everywhere else, financing corporate and private capital making
more profit.



> Yes you are right Eva, Marx was born in Prussia, but let me expand upon
> the English connection:

Thanks for the lecture, I had some idea about these things, now you
looked it up and you have some idea, too. Good.


> Peter Soltesz
>

Joe Szalai > wrote:

>Slobodan Milosevic is losing his grip on power in Yugoslavia.  He is a man
>who understands power and has no second thoughts about using it.  I just
>hope he doesn't use it against his own people.  If he does, there'll be
>another Balkan tragedy.

>It's my guess that Milosevic will be gone within a week.

>Joe Szalai
Don't count on getting Milosevic out. We have been here before. All he
has to do is rally the Serbs to think there is a threat from some
minority. There were protest like this before  to get the "comunists"
out , and then they attacked Croatia.

This is a scam!!!

Do not spend your hard earned money on this scam!!!

You will loose your money and it is illegal!!!

Get this sob off the list!!!

----------
From:  Hungarian Discussion List on behalf of Metal Blade
Sent:  Friday, December 06, 1996 1:36 AM
To:  Multiple recipients of list HUNGARY
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> END -- Cut Here -- cut here

In article >,  (Peter k
Chong) wrote:


* Sumerian:       ab(-ba) 128,13a (father)
* Finnish:        appi (father-in-law)
* Hungarian:      apa (father)
* Turkish:        aba (")
* Mongol:         aav (")

I was skimming through the words-comparison end of your post (not knowing
any of the languages in question), when the above set caught my eye.  Is
this any relation to Semitic "aba"-type words for father (Aramaic "abba,"
Hebrew? "aba"), or just coincidence?  (Forgive me if I've got my words
wrong; this is fuzzy territory at best for me).

Regards,

Kendra

In > Peter k Chong wrote:

>Here's a little blurb I typed up on Edit in response to
>a Mr. J. Pearson who originally asked whether Finnish
>is related to Turkish... It took me a while to type up
>but it's here as an attachment... Feel free to browse
>through it and make comments...
>
>Cheers
>
>Peter Chong

Your Sumerian-Ural/Altaic word comparisons are
certainly interesting... But some Turkish words
listed are borrow words from non-Altaic languages.
On the other hand, some better matches in Turkish
can be found instead of the given examples. This
is all I can say after taking a quick look at it
and unfortunately I can't spare the time to offer
item by item comments. (besides I'm no linguist
and can't even tell what sounds the numeric digits
supposed to indicate, etc.) But I'll try to follow
the thread...

MK

.....
>I am quite surprised that very few people responded (especially form
>Hungary!). Are the people there such sheep that they  do not even think
>about things that affect their daily life or are things so engrained that
>it is useless to try??
>Peter
>
No, they are not "such sheep". Maybe you didn't notice, but most of the
members of this list are Hungarians living in USA, Canada or other
countries, *not* in Hungary.

Lajos

>On Thu, 5 Dec 1996, Frank A. Aycock, Ph.D. wrote:
><SNIP>
>> TUs sound terrible taking off, when the pilots rotate their engines
>> and begin to raise flaps you think an engine is likely to fall off -
>> it's scary!!  No thanks; you can have them.
<SNIP>
><<<<<<<<<
>Dear Frank....I certainly hope that the pilots rotate the plane and NOT
>the engine! The term rotate means to rotate the plane along its mid axis
>perpendicular to the travel heading so that it can take off. Let me
>assure you that the engines DO NOT Rotate! If they do you were real lucky.
>Peter Soltesz
>
Sorry Peter, but I think you are wrong. Rotate means: "1.to turn around or
cause turn around a center point or axis, revolve 2. to go or cause to go in
a regular and recurring succession of changes; take, or cause to take,
turns" (source: Webster's New World Dictionary, 3rd College Edition)
When taking off, the AOA is increased (angel of attack), it's surely not
"rotating"  - it is not a full revolution, not a full turn around(1) nor a
regular, recurring succession of changes (2). It is rather "nodding".
But jet engines "rotate" at very high speed (about a few thousand RPM),
turning aruond an axis (1) and (2).
If the engines do not rotate, it is called a crash-landing.

Lajos

>I suppose in the age of poor maintenance - typical of the Soviet block -
>any landing without a crash deserves applause!
>Peter Soltesz
>
Soviet airplanes were maintained much better in the Soviet era. Tu's and
Il's had one of the best safety records. It is partly because these planes
were planned to stand almost everything. Il-18, Tu-134 and even Tu-154 can
be operated from a grass airfield, they don't need runways. Some Il-18
planes in the late 80s were bought back by USSR to fly in its Arctic
Aeroflot (as cargo planes to arctic bases). Il-62 was the first russian
trans-continental jetliner (later followed by Il-86 "Airbus") - it is
(AFAIK) the only commercial airplane which doesn't need trailer to taxi
backward. It can be done with the plane's own engines, using thrust braking
(it works reversing trust, used normally for braking).
Poor maintenance is typical in ex-soviet states, I suppose mainly du to lack
of funds an personnel.

Lajos

******************************
*       Lajos Monoki         *
*  NCR Hungary - CSS Szeged  *
* e-mail: *
*  Tel/Fax: +36-62-434101    *
*    Mobil: +36-30-584523    *
******************************
        Homepage:
http://www.tiszanet.hu/~lmonoki

Programming today is a race between software engineers
striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs,
and the Universe trying to producebigger and better idiots.
So far, the Universe is winning.