It is difficult to find words to describe my disappointment with
respect to the broadcasting of the Atlanta Olympic Games by NBC.
First, during the opening ceremonies, during the parade of athletes --
the highlight of the opening ceremonies  -- was frequently and
randomly interrupted by dull commercials that ignored many
participating nations including Hungary.  Furthermore, in favor of
something even more insipid than another Coca Cola commercial, the
team of Hungary, one of the greatest nations in Olympic history (third
among all nations at the Helsinki games for example), disappeared
between the cracks of Honk Kong and Iceland . 

The team of Hungarian athletes, includes the youngest athlete ever to
win an Olympic gold medal in swimming, Krisztina Egerszegi.  Winner of
a silver and five gold Olympic medals, her achievements has been
unparalleled even by Janet Evans.  Miss Egerszegi could not be seen on
NBC because Mr. Charles Barkley was asked yet another time about his
foul intention to punch his opponents on the basketball court. I have
already seen the same scene on national television enough times to
have grown sick and tired of it.  Nonetheless, I and others have not
seen and will not see Ms. Egerszegi and the other outstanding
Hungarian athletes in the Olympic parade.   

There may have been about 10,700 athletes in the Olympic parade,
making it impossible to appropriately expose every one of them, or
even the most outstanding ones.  However, there were 10,700 who would
have absolutely deserved more attention then Mr. Barkley. There are
few in the world of sport, amateur or professional, who represent the
antithesis of the Olympic spirit more obviously than this
unprofessional bully with a well publicized record of drunken bar
fights and obnoxious behavior on and off the court.  During the parade
of the US team, his uninspiring portrait appeared three additional
times, limiting the presentation of more deserving American athletes.


Commentators repeatedly harped on about Shaquille O'Neil's contract,
which has been covered well enough in other forms of media.  I
expected NBC, the exclusive holder of US broadcasting rights of the
opening ceremonies, to professionally introduce the parade of world
class athletes.  They fell short in accomplishing this task for which,
according to their own commercials, they have been preparing
themselves for a very long time.  Regrettably, NBC failed to procure
professional broadcasting talent and a true Olympic vision along with
these rights.  Thus, given the perfect pool of talent in the form of
almost 11,000 committed, trained, and dedicated athletes, NBC served
up fluff - doing both the athletes and the world-wide viewing audience
an enormous disservice.

A few more thoughts:

At the Olympics I find little excitement in watching the so-called
dream team winning yet another game by 60 points against obvious
underdogs, let alone listening to their polemics on paychecks,
contracts and on-court brutality.  When it comes to the Olympics, I
much prefer to watch sportsmen who fight hard but clean - the all
amateur US water polo team providing a good example of this.  So far I
have seen little evidence that NBC is interested in presenting much
more than a John Tesh-ified gymnastic exhibition featuring almost
exclusively American athletes, and obtuse "interviews" with, frankly,
dull individuals. This banal approach seems to prevail effectively -
resisting any and all influence of the true spirit of the Olympics.
It is a shame that such a meritorious event with an such an
extraordinary message has degenerated into nothing more than a
jingoistic, prime-time soap opera, appealing to no one and
disappointing many of those of us who eagerly anticipated celebrating
both the victories and defeats of the greatest athletes of our time.

Zsolt Vereczkey, MD.  
Thomas Porter, Ph.D.  

T. Kocsis  > wrote:
>
>Nincs Katolikus Akademia Magyarorszagon.

Remlik mintha lenne egy Hittudomanyi Akademia.

P. Jozsi

can anyone help point me to the best (cheapest) way to phone hungary?
Thank you,
John

(Miecz) wrote:

> Do not be foolish! Almost all immigrants from the former Soviet Union
>are Jews. They have to pretend to be Russians, Ukrainians, etc. They
>are even angry that they have to mask their genuine identity that in
>fact they are Jews. I have not met in the United States any immigrant
>from Russia who was not Jewish. For example only Jews from the former
>Soviet Union, Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Romania, Hungary and
>from other Middle and Eastern European States may get political asylum
>on base of preassumed anty-Semitism existing in these countries from US
>Immigration Service. 
>
> Therefore United States taxpayers are paying enormous amount of
>dollars for services granted to these immigrants.

The U.S. taxpayers are paying enormous amounts for services to too
many immigrants from all kinds of nations. I am not aware about any
particular U.S. Jewish immigration problem. . . are you?

If anything there are problems with Russian criminal elements
immigrating to the U.S., not necessarily Jews from Russia.

  Mark W. Kaliczynski
  mailto:

I am surprised at the numerous slanderings and harpings of the Magyar's 
Finno-Ugric origins! It is quite apparent that many of you have been 
taken in by the lies of 150 years of Habsburg-sponsered scholarship. In 
brief this is the lie... The time is 1849, the Magyars under Kossuth 
Lajos have just lost the War of Independance to the Russians and 
Austrians. The Austrian aristocracy, shaken and angered by Magyar 
restlessness are now determined more than ever to break the Magyar's back 
and committ spiritual murder. In the mid 19th century, ethnography was an 
emerging interest and it was known that the Magyar and Lappish (Finnic) 
tongues were related as demonstrated by an astronomer named Sajnovics. As 
the Austrians with General Haynau are pursuing their cruel and brutal 
revenge on the Magyars (execution of 13 Magyar generals at Arad, 
wholesale Germanization of Hungarian culture), the Austrians sensing a 
world uproar over their treatment bring up an excuse... (sort of)... In 
convincing Magyars and the world that the restless Hungarians are no more 
than relatives of the primitive and simple Lapps, Khanty (Ostyaks), Mansi 
(Voguls) and Samojeds, they hope to bring worldwide scorn on the Magyar 
and thus justifty their cultural genocide. Initial reaction among 
Hungarians was outrage and indignation. According to Magyar folk-legends, 
the Magyars were descendants of the great Scythian nation of peoples 
which includes the Parthians, Samaritans, Mongolians, Turks, Dacians, 
Huns, Sumerians, Akkadians, Hurrians, Chaldeans, Babylonians and a host 
of other Central Asian peoples. However, the dissenting voices were 
silenced as Finno-Ugric scientists assailed them left right and center. 
Of course there is truth in the Finno-Ugric relationship demonstrated 
amply by thousands of publications worldwide. However, still a few souls 
wondered whether the Finno-Ugric theory of origin was the ONLY correct 
theory. Meanwhile the Finno-Ugrian departments, subsidised and 
priviledged by their Austrian masters continue to harp on their theory as 
the only way. Such people as Torma Zsófia, the archaeologist who found 
Sumerian cuneiform in Erdély (Transylvania) and was laughed at by the 
guild. Sebestyén György who wrote a book relating the ancient Magyar 
runic script with that of the Sumerian cuneiform only to have his 
manuscript lost by the Academy, Dr. Varga Zsigmond whose comparative 
thesis study on Magyar and Sumerian was both praised and scorned by the 
Academey. The reason according to the Academy... a language relationshop 
cannot be proved only by grammatical similarities but must also show 
sufficient lexical ones... (Varga demonstrated 108 Magyar-Sumerian 
equivalents). These brave souls who tried, but they failed... or did 
they? The 19th century archaeologists Francois Lenormant and Jules Oppert 
discovered that a facility of Hungarian was a great advantage in being 
able to decipher the first written human language - Sumerian. Not 
surprisingly, the Austrian-sponsered "Hungarian" Academy of Sciences 
laughed at their observations. Today, the Hungarians have one of the 
lowest if not the very lowest birth-rate worldwide and their suicide rate 
is the highest worldwide. Will the Hungarians join their fellow Scythian 
ancestors as an extinct people? If so, the Habsburgs will have done their 
job... So that is the lie. Here is the truth...                          
       The Sumerians have established themselves as the masters of 
Mesopotamia, it is 3000 BC. Gradually however, a different, alien people 
the Akkadians gradually move into the area and assimilate the Sumerian 
ways. By 2500 BC, the Sumerians fat and decadent from their sedentary 
lifestyle are slowly starting to fade. By 2000 BC. Sumeria is but a 
shadow of what it once was. Soon more migrations come along with raids 
from the Semitic Babyblonian and Assyrian tribes. The Sumerians endearing 
their lives flee the area in all directions lest they become slaves for 
their new masters. Some flee east towards India, some even to China. 
Others head west towards Egypt, still others flee northeast towards 
Persia and Central Asia (witness and hear the amount of 
Sumerian-sounding words in Sanskrit, Chinese, Persian, Ancient Egyptian, 
Turkish, Mongolian and Manchu) Yet the bulk of them head north to what is 
now modern Kurdistan (Eastern Turkey) which they called SUBARTU (land of 
the free - maybe "szabad" [Hungarian word for "free"] is related to the 
SUBAR of SUBARTU...) Gradually the city dwellers blend in with the locals 
who are probably horsemen and hunters. Eventually, these Subartians head 
north again towards the Caucasus mountains and later on towards the 
steppes north of the Black Sea. There was (I'm not sure if its still 
there) a tribe in the Caucasus called the Savarid (Subartu?) who spoke a 
tongue similar to Magyar. By now it is probably 500 AD and the rest is 
well-known to us (Khazar Alliance, Blood Oath, Honfoglalas of 896 with 
Arpad). That is the very brief summary of the Magyar origins. For some 
linguistic proof of Sumerian-Finnic-Turkish-Mongolian-Egyptian-Middle 
Eastern-Hungarian-Manchu lexical and grammatical relationships visit 
these web pages by Fred Hámori: HTTP://EXO.COM/~FREDH/LANGAUGE.HTM (This 
page has many subdivisons of cognates in various fields such as anatomy, 
nature, colours, numbers, pronouns, prefixes, etc.) For 
anthropological/racial insights visits see 
HTTP://EXO.COM/~FREDH/ANTHRO.HTM. For historical views see 
HTTP://EXO.COM/~FREDH/HISTORY.HTM. For Sumero-Magyar mythological 
insights see HTTP://EXO.COM/~FREDH/MYTHS.HTM. For the origin of the name 
"MAGYAR" see HTTP://SERVER.SNNI.COM/FREDH/MAGYARNAM.HTM. These are but a 
start. I have said my piece... SZIA! ÉLJEN MAGYARORSZAG! ÉLJEN AZ 
IGAZSAG!                                                                 
                                                                         
 Sincerely                                                               
 A Hungarophile named Pete

Gyorgy Kovacs > wrote:

>The Tenkes is a region of Transdanubia, the story is about a local guy, Ma'te'
>Eke who got in trouble with the Austrian (labanc) authorities, and started his
>resistance with his friends. As the movement grew he was named the Captain of
>the Tenkes, A Tenkes Kapitanya. The role was played by Ferenc Zenthe, also an
>excellent Hungarian actor. Other roles were played by Laszlo Ungvari, Ildiko
>Pecsi, Marta Vajda, Mariann Krencsei.
>A Rakoczi Hadnagya is a totally different story.

Hm, I don't know then why I mixed this with "Rakoczi hadnagya", though I
did recall Zenthe Ferenc and Pecsi Ildiko starring in the series.  I
also seem to recall that it was filmed at Szigetvar, with its fort as
the fort of Tenkes.

Joe

Just to get an idea what the Hungarian minority of Slovakia may be
facing in their 1,100 year homeland:

Joe Pannon
----------------------------------

Article 20513 of bit.listserv.slovak-l:
From:  (Kristina Szurek)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slovak-l
Subject: Re: More paranoia from Bratislava
Date: 30 Jul 1996 13:44:26 GMT
Organization: York University
Lines: 35
Message-ID: >
References: >
Reply-To: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: sunlight.ccs.yorku.ca
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

: >SLOVAK GOVERNMENT APPROVES BILL ON STATE SYMBOLS. The government on 23
: >July approved a draft law on the use of state symbols, Slovenska
: >Republika reported the following day. If the bill becomes law, state
: >offices would no longer be required to display portraits of the
: >president. The bill would also prevent the public display of the
: >Hungarian flag in southern Slovakia except during official visits by
: >Hungarian officials. -- Sharon Fisher

I think that Hungarians living in Slovakia are having too much power
as a minority.  The international bounaries are set, and the land now
is under jurisdiction of the Slovak Republic, so if you live on this
land, you should conform to its laws.  I mean, the whole towns and cities
speak Hungarian, stores have only Hungarian signs, elementary and
secondary school are taught in Hungarian, and thoughts of Hungarian
university !?!  That's ridiculous!!!  No other minority in any other state
that I know of has such power.  Canada, for example, is a multicultural
country, but even though everyone has a different background and culture,
they all must conform to the country's law.  We, for example, have
bi-lingual labels on all food products: English and French.  If you want,
you can add a Hungarian or Chinese label to it, but is must have English
and French there somewhere.

Hungarians are the nations of conquerors, so I think the Slovak public
with the help of their governmnet should put their foot down and lay down
the rules.  I have nothing against the Hungarian minority living on the
land of the Slovak republic, but I have something against ANY minority not
following rules, or making rules as they go along. (and sometimes they
even scream to E.U. that they are being wrongfully prejudiced, which is
total bull shit.)

Having said that, the above law may not be the best solution, but it's a
start.  Slovaks must preserve their land and culture. [Quebec province
passed a similar law prohibiting English-only signs in any stores.
Quebec is a French speaking province, and their intent was to preserve the
French language in their cities.]

In article > , 
writes:
>Remlik mintha lenne egy Hittudomanyi Akademia.

Valoban a taxonomiaval kotekedtem. Lehet, hogy mar van
hittudomanyi akademia, de az atkosban nem igy hivtak,
hanem katolikus teologianak (?) A  pletyka szerint a
szekta vezetoje ugyna a rabbikepzobe tanult, de nem fe-
jezte be, nem lett rabbi.

Tamas

 wrote:

> Ivan Marinov irasaiban a szog lassan kibujik a zsakbol: Solzhenytsin
> akit minden lapja alatt idez, egy Oroszorszagot szeretne latni
> az Orthodox hit vezetese alatt. Ez rendben van. Ez meg Bulgariaban is
> lehetseges. De Magyar Orszagon ezt nem lehet megcsinalni.
> Itt meg kinevetnek.
>                               Mark

Csak nehany kerdesem van:
1. Hol bujt ki a szog a zsakbol?
2. Hol beszeltem Oroszorszagrol?
3. Miert tartod hibasnak Szolzsenyicint?
4. Hol beszeltem Bulgariarol?
5. Hol beszeltem Magyarorszag jovojerol?
A tobbi vilagos :-)


-- 

Ivan Marinov - Maximilian Valenski
---



---
"The Western world has lost its civil courage, both as a whole, 
and separately, in each country, each government, each 
political party, and of course in the UN. I have spent all my 
life under a Communist regime, and I will tell you that a society 
without any objective scale is a terrible one indeed. But a 
society with no other scale but the legal one is not quite worthy
of man either." (A. I. Solzhenitsyn)
---
PGP Key Fingerprint = 9D 85 B7 63 7D 85 14 C1  4C 36 CB 5E 92 70 FE E3
---

In article >,  
says...
>
>  
>>
>>
>>>  Don't be a fool, fellow. There are no differensies between "bydlo"
>from any countryes.
>>>Nick.
>>
>  
> Do not be foolish! Almost all immigrants from the former Soviet Union
>are Jews. They have to pretend to be Russians, Ukrainians, etc. They
>are even angry that they have to mask their genuine identity that in
>fact they are Jews. I have not met in the United States any immigrant
>from Russia who was not Jewish. For example only Jews from the former
>Soviet Union, Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Romania, Hungary and
>from other Middle and Eastern European States may get political asylum
>on base of preassumed anty-Semitism existing in these countries from US
>Immigration Service. 
>
> Therefore United States taxpayers are paying enormous amount of
>dollars for services granted to these immigrants. 
>
> There is a popular misconception created mainly by media that
>EX-SOVIETS are ethnic nationals.
>
> There is difference between "bydlo" - cows - goyim and chosen people.
>
>Sinerely,
>
>Miecz (Sword) 

That used to be the situation before the fall of the Soviet empire.  The 
past few years many non-jews came to the New World, a huge part of them 
criminal elements.  I am reading a lot nowadays of the new Russian 
maffia.  There was no Russian maffia here prior to the collapse of the 
Soviet Union.

Agnes

In article >,  
says...
>
>Servusz Mayarórszág!
>Most írok elöször magyarúl. Nem is akkarok egy hibamentes szöveget
>irni, hanem akkarnek magyarul tanulni es a magyar kolturaéletben
>beavatkozni. Arnold Szathmáry az én nevem, es Heilbronn ban élek. Nem
>sokára 25 éves leszek. Magyarul nem tanultam soha írni és olvasni.
>Beszelni apámtol tanultam. 
>
>Sajnos hogy ez as egyetlen magyar newsgroup amelyeket németorszagban
>lehet "fogni".
>
>Hallo ihr ungarischen Landsleute!
>Nehmt es mir bitte nicht übel, daß ich euch in deutscher Sprache
>schreibe, das geht mir einfach besser von der Hand. Sehr gerne würde
>ich ungarische Mails erhalten, doch kenne ich (noch) niemanden.
>Wie Ihr sicherlich bemerkt habt trage ich einen ungarischen Namen.
>Laßt euch davon bitte nicht beirren, ungarisch kann ich zwar
>entziffern und ziemlich gut sprechen, schreiben kann ich allerdings
>nicht. Alles will eben gelernt sein.
>Ich bin etwas enttäscht von der Post AG, weil keine ungarische
>Newsgroup angeboten wird. Gibt es überhaupt so etwas?
>
>Tschüs
>Arnold

>
Nalunk, Canadaban, van magyar szak az egyetemen.  A konyvtarakban vannak 
magyar konyvek es folyoiratok.  Ezenkivul, vannak magyar clubbok, 
templomok, stb.  - Mast sajnos nem tudok ajanlani.

Udv. Agnes

In article >,  > wrote:
| can anyone help point me to the best (cheapest) way to phone hungary?
| Thank you,
| John


Hands down MCI... I am paying 28 c/ mintue.
You have to ask for a program the name of whcih currently
escapes me, World Savings (?) and use quickdial numbers.

Aside from that there is "One Rate International" from AT&T
for 48 cents.


Istvan

Istvan Szucs wrote:

> A
>  dogmaban viszont sok valtozas tortent. Meg II Janos Pal is
> tobb mindenben valtoztatott.. Egyetlen egyhaz allaspontja
> sem valtozatlan  minden kerdesben.

A katolikusok az utobbi 1000 ev alatt 4-5 kerdesben valtoztattak dogmat. 
(Ebben persze a katolikusok nem fognak velem egyeterteni, 
szerintuk egyetlen valtozas sem tortent.) Kisebb, dogmat nem erinto 
valtoztatasok nem szamitanak, mivel ezek nem erintik a tanitast.

-- 

Ivan Marinov - Maximilian Valenski
---



---
"The Western world has lost its civil courage, both as a whole, 
and separately, in each country, each government, each 
political party, and of course in the UN. I have spent all my 
life under a Communist regime, and I will tell you that a society 
without any objective scale is a terrible one indeed. But a 
society with no other scale but the legal one is not quite worthy
of man either." (A. I. Solzhenitsyn)
---
PGP Key Fingerprint = 9D 85 B7 63 7D 85 14 C1  4C 36 CB 5E 92 70 FE E3
---

Szobakerult, hogy vajon a Gyulekezet vezetoje katolikus akademian,
vagy rabbikepzoben tanult. A HIT Gyulekezet alabbi otthonlapja
szerint mindkettoben van valami! Alabb ezt irja Nemeth Sandor,
a HIT Gyulekezet vezetoje:

"K=E9pes=EDt=E9sem katolikus teol=F3gus. H=E1rom =E9v szemin=E1riumot=
 fejeztem be,
majd a budapesti Rabbik=E9pz=F5 Int=E9zet vend=E9gdi=E1kjak=E9nt tanulm=E1ny=
oztam
a T=F3r=E1t".

Az alabb ujrakozolt teljes szoveg megtalalhato:

http://www.hit.hu/mh_info/info1-2/sandor.htm


                  A Jerusalem Post interj=FAja N=E9meth S=E1ndorral, a Hit
Gy=FClekezete vezet=F4 lelk=E9sz=E9vel

- Miben =E1ll az 1996-os jeruzs=E1lemi konferencia jelent=F4s=E9ge?

- Id=E9n janu=E1rban 2500 h=EDv=F4 utazik konferenci=E1nkra Magyarorsz=E1gr=
=F3l
Jeruzs=E1lembe, a kereszteshadj=E1ratok =F3ta a legnagyobb
sz=E1m=FA magyar csoport, amely egy id=F4ben a v=E1rosba =E9rkezik. Sz=E1nd=
=E9kaink
azonban eg=E9szen elt=E9r=F4ek: mi nem megsz=E1ll=F3k=E9nt
j=F6v=FCnk!

A konferenci=E1t nem tekintj=FCk szigor=FAan felekezeti jelleg=FBnek: az
izraeli-magyar kapcsolatok ter=E9n enn=E9l sokkal nagyobb t=E1vlatokat
nyithat. Az elm=FAlt negyven =E9v sor=E1n a magyar t=E1rsadalom nem a legre=
=E1lisabb
k=E9pet kapta Izraelr=F4l =E9s a zsid=F3 n=E9pr=F4l. Fontos,
hogy a saj=E1t szem=FCnkkel l=E1ssuk Izraelt, hogy m=E9lt=E1nyolni tudj=E1k =
v=EDvm=E1nyait.
A konferencia seg=EDthet az Izrael ir=E1nti =E9rdekl=F4d=E9s
fel=E9breszt=E9s=E9ben. A l=E1togat=F3k v=E9gre nem az elm=FAlt n=E9gy=
 =E9vtized politikai
propagand=E1ja alapj=E1n, hanem a maga val=F3s=E1g=E1ban
l=E1thatj=E1k az orsz=E1got. M=E1sr=E9szr=F4l a Hit Gy=FClekezete hisz=
 abban, hogy a m=FAlt
tragikus t=F6rt=E9nelm=E9nek semmif=E9lek=E9ppen nem
szabad megism=E9tl=F4dnie. Magyarorsz=E1gnak el kell szakadnia az etnikai
csoportok =E9s k=FCl=F6n=F6sen a zsid=F3s=E1g elleni diszkrimin=E1ci=F3
legapr=F3bb nyomait=F3l is.

A konferencia k=FCl=F6n=F6s vall=E1si =E9s szellemi jelent=F4s=E9ge=
 sz=E1munkra, hogy D=E1vid
v=E1ros=E1ban ker=FCl megrendez=E9sre. Hit=FCnk szerint
Jeruzs=E1lem elv=E1laszthatatlan a zsid=F3 n=E9pt=F4l. Egy orsz=E1gnak sincs=
 joga
Izrael bel=FCgyeibe beavatkozni. Szem=E9lyes megjegyz=E9sk=E9nt
hadd mondjam el, mindig tal=E1lkozom magyarajk=FA zsid=F3kkal, amikor Izrael=
be
l=E1togatok. Teh=E1t a konferencia orsz=E1gaink
lakosainak szem=E9lyes kapcsolat=E1t is er=F4s=EDti. Rem=E9lem, az izraeliek=
 l=E1tni
fogj=E1k, hogy Magyarorsz=E1gon sz=E1zezrek =E9lnek, akik
=F4szint=E9n szeretik =F4ket =E9s akt=EDvan keresnek minden lehet=F4s=E9get=
 a m=FAlt
=E1rnyainak =E1tl=E9p=E9s=E9re. Szeretn=E9nk a j=F6v=F4ben =FAjra
megrendezni ezt a konferenci=E1t hasonl=F3 modern zar=E1ndoklat form=E1j=E1b=
an.
Magyarorsz=E1gnak minden ter=FCleten sz=FCks=E9ge van a j=F3
kapcsolatokra Izraellel. Budapest =E9s Jeruzs=E1lem testv=E9rv=E1rosok. Mive=
l
K=F6z=E9p-Eur=F3p=E1ban Budapesten =E9l a legnagyobb zsid=F3
k=F6z=F6ss=E9g, jeruzs=E1lemi utaz=E1sunk a n=E9pi diplom=E1cia eszk=F6zeive=
l is seg=EDthet
abban, hogy Magyarorsz=E1gon is jobban meg=E9rts=FCk
egym=E1st.

- Mi a Hit Gy=FClekezete szerepe az =FAj Magyarorsz=E1gon?

- A hetvenes =E9vekben a szellemi =E9let a lakoss=E1g otthonaira=
 korl=E1toz=F3dott. A
hivatalos egyh=E1zak vall=E1si =E9lete az =E1llam teljes
kontrollja alatt zajlott. A Hit Gy=FClekezete csoportjai titokban,
otthonokban tal=E1lkoztak. A nyolcvanas =E9vekre azt=E1n ny=EDlt
=F6ssze=FCtk=F6z=E9sbe ker=FClt=FCnk a hatalommal. A h=EDv=F4k sz=E1m=E1nak =
gyarapod=E1s=E1val
p=E1rhuzamosan n=F6vekedett az elnyom=E1s. A zaklat=E1s
er=F4s=F6d=F6tt, tagjaink a letart=F3ztat=E1s =E9s a beb=F6rt=F6nz=E9s=
 k=FCsz=F6b=E9n =E1lltak.
Kihallgat=E1sokra id=E9ztek be minket, n=E9h=E1nyunk elvesztette
=E1ll=E1s=E1t, m=E1sok otthonaiban h=E1zkutat=E1st tartottak =E9s=
 =FAtleveleket koboztak
el. Saj=E1t =FAtlevelemet nyolc =E9vig, 1980-t=F3l 1988-ig
tartott=E1k bevonva. A zaklat=E1sokat levelekben dokument=E1ltuk k=FClf=F6ld=
i
emberi-jogi szervezetek fel=E9, s ez kapcsolatba hozott minket
a form=E1l=F3d=F3 magyar politikai ellenz=E9ki mozgalommal. A nyolcvanas =E9=
vek
f=F6ldalatti ellenz=E9ki mozgalm=E1ban jelent=F4s szerepet
j=E1tszottunk. Az =E9vtized k=F6zep=E9n seg=E9dkezt=FCnk a Szabad Kezdem=E9n=
yez=E9sek
H=E1l=F3zat=E1nak magalap=EDt=E1s=E1ban, amely az 1988-ban
alap=EDtott Szabad Demokrat=E1k Sz=F6vets=E9g=E9nek el=F4fut=E1ra volt. Ez a=
 liber=E1lis
politikai p=E1rt ma a Szocialista P=E1rt koal=EDci=F3s
korm=E1nyz=F3partnere. Az els=F4 posztkommunista korm=E1nyzat nem mutatott n=
agy
vall=E1si toleranci=E1t, b=E1r a helyzet sokkal jobb volt,
mint a kommunista rendszerben. A probl=E9ma sokat enyh=FClt a jelenlegi
korm=E1nyzat hatalomra ker=FCl=E9s=E9vel.

K=E9pes=EDt=E9sem katolikus teol=F3gus. H=E1rom =E9v szemin=E1riumot=
 fejeztem be, majd a
budapesti Rabbik=E9pz=F5 Int=E9zet vend=E9gdi=E1kjak=E9nt
tanulm=E1nyoztam a T=F3r=E1t. A hetvenes =E9vekben ker=FCltem kapcsolatba a
karizmatikus mozgalommal =E9s pr=E9dik=E1lni kezdtem. B=E1r
Izraellel =E9s a zsid=F3s=E1ggal val=F3 kapcsolatomat mindig nagyon fontosna=
k
=E9reztem, az =E9vek m=FAl=E1s=E1val ez egyre ink=E1bb elm=E9ly=FClt.
Mindig is tiszteltem a zsid=F3kat =E9rt=E9keik =E9s az eur=F3pai kult=FAr=E1=
hoz val=F3
hozz=E1j=E1rul=E1suk miatt. Nagyon elszomor=EDtott, amit az elm=FAlt
k=E9tezer =E9vben a kereszt=E9nys=E9g nev=E9ben a zsid=F3kkal tettek=
 Eur=F3p=E1ban. Ez a
szomor=FAs=E1g komoly bels=F4 konfliktusokat okozott.
Sokszor k=E9rdeztem magamt=F3l: hogyan tartozhatom egy olyan vall=E1si
mozgalomhoz, amelynek a nev=E9ben ilyen sz=F6rny=FB dolgokat
tettek. Ez=E9rt voltam annyira nyitott a hetvenes =E9vek kereszt=E9ny
reformmozgalm=E1ra.

A kereszt=E9nys=E9gnek m=E9g ma is radik=E1lis meg=FAjul=E1sra van sz=FCks=
=E9ge. Minden
gy=FClekezetnek sz=FCks=E9ge van szervezeti keretekre, de
a szervezetnek nem szabad =F6nmag=E1ban vett c=E9ll=E1 v=E1lnia, hanem a Bib=
lia
=E9rt=E9keit kell k=E9pviselnie.

- Mit =E9rzett, amikor el=F4sz=F6r l=E9pett izraeli f=F6ldre?

- Eg=E9sz bens=F4m felemelkedett. Olyan szellemi =F6r=F6m=F6t =E9ltem =E1t,=
 amit a
r=E9szegs=E9ghez tudn=E9k hasonl=EDtani. K=F6nnyes lett a szemem,
hogy megl=E1thatom azt a f=F6ldet, ahol annyi szent ember =E9lt. Istenben =
=F6r=F6m
van, s ezt az egy=E9n Istennel val=F3 kapcsolat=E1ban
tapasztalja meg. Az =F6r=F6m felemeli az embert =E9s k=E9pess=E9 teszi arra,=
 hogy =E9g=F4
szeretetb=F4l, szabadon k=F6vesse =D5t, nem pedig
k=F6teless=E9gtudatb=F3l vagy k=E9nyszerb=F4l.

Saj=E1t =E9letemben megtanultam, hogy az =F6r=F6m olyan forr=E1s, amely=
 meger=F5s=EDti az
embereket =E9s soha nem sz=E1rad ki. Neh=E9mi=E1s azt
mondta a Jeruzs=E1lemet =E9p=EDt=F4 zsid=F3knak: "Az =DAr =F6r=F6me a ti=
 er=F4ss=E9getek." Ez
nagyon fontos a szem=E9lyes =E9letemben =E9s a szolg=E1lat
minden ter=FClet=E9n. V=E9gs=F4 c=E9lunk az, hogy Isten besz=E9de szerint=
 =E9lj=FCnk, de
nem szabad, hogy ez fanatizmuss=E1 v=E1ljon benn=FCnk. Az
egyens=FAlyt a szabads=E1g megtart=E1s=E1val =E9rhetj=FCk el. A t=FAlzott=
 vall=E1soss=E1g nem
eg=E9szs=E9ges, neurotikuss=E1 teszi az embereket. A
h=EDv=F5knek kiegyens=FAlyozott, k=F6nnyed =E9letet kell =E9lni=FCk, =E9s=
 engedni=FCk, hogy
az =F6r=F6m munk=E1lkodjon benn=FCk.

Jeruzs=E1lemben k=FCl=F6nleges =F6r=F6m=F6t tapasztalunk meg. =D6r=F6m=FCnk=
 telik abban, hogy
l=E1thatjuk, amint a Jeruzs=E1lemben =E9l=F5k nagy
fesz=FClts=E9gek k=F6zepette is megpr=F3b=E1lnak harm=F3ni=E1t teremteni. Az=
 =E9let itt
kem=E9ny, ak=E1rcsak Kelet-Eur=F3p=E1ban, s az emberek
folyamatosan a mindennapi =E9let neh=E9zs=E9gei f=F6l=E9 emelkednek.=
 Csod=E1ljuk, amit
a zsid=F3 n=E9p ilyen embert pr=F3b=E1l=F3 k=F6r=FClm=E9nyek
k=F6z=F6tt produk=E1l.

Jerusalem Post, 1996. janu=E1r 20.

In article > Arnold,
 writes:
>Most írok elöször magyarúl. Nem is akkarok egy hibamentes szöveget
>irni, hanem akkarnek magyarul tanulni es a magyar kolturaéletben
>beavatkozni. Arnold Szathmáry az én nevem, es Heilbronn ban élek.
>Nem sokára 25 éves leszek. Magyarul nem tanultam soha írni és ol-
>vasni. Beszelni apámtol tanultam.

Ha ezt a csoportot nem találod céljaidnak megfelelőnek, iratkozz
fel valamelyik magyarnyelvü HIX listára. Ha a nyelvgyakorlás a cé-
lod, akkor a RANDI-t vagy az OTTHON-t ajánlom. Ha vallási érdek-
lődésü vagy, akkor  próbáld meg a VITA-t, ha politika érdekel ott a
FORUM, amely nemzeti és ott a SZALON, amely liberális politikai
csoport.

De ha kedved van, és a tudásod is megvan hozzá csinálhatsz egy sa-
ját - németnyelvü- listát, mondjuk UNGARN névvel, ahol szintén
lehetne magyar dolgokról levelezni, németül-magyarul vegyesen.
Szerintem lenne elég érdeklődő, dolgozunk elegen német nyelvte-
rületen.

Tamás (Zürichből)

In article >,
Ivan Marinov  > wrote:
|  wrote:
| 
| >A keresztenysegnek meg ma is radikalis megujulasra van szuksege.
| 
| Nincs szukseg semmilyen megujulasra, se radikalisra, se mersekeltre. 
| Jezus megmondta
| evszazadokkal ezelott, amit meg kellett mondania. Tehat barmilyen 
| megujulas Jezus szavanak
| elferditeset jelentene.

FGelteve hogy nem most van elferdite. A szazadok alatt tobb
valtozas tortent a dogmaban... Ahogy akkor ugy most is lehet
szukseg valtozasra.
Arrol nem is beszelve hogy sok minden amit az egyhazak
tanitanak nem kozvetlenul
ezustol szarmazik., es sok bibliai eloirast senki nem tart
meg.

In article >,
Ivan Marinov  > wrote:
| Istvan Szucs wrote:
|  
| > A szazadok alatt tobb
| > valtozas tortent a dogmaban...
| 
| Nem tortent.
| 
| > Ahogy akkor ugy most is lehet
| > szukseg valtozasra.
| 
| Isten szavat nem kell megvaltoztatni, ennek semmi koze az emberi 
| hibakhoz.
Isten szavat nem kell megvaltoztatni, de azt hogy mi hjogy
ertjuk Isten szavat azt estleg kell...

Vagy maskepp.. Isten szavaat mindenki csak a sajat ertelmen
keresztul ismeri amiiszont tokeleetlen.

A
 dogmaban viszont sok valtozas tortent. Meg II Janos Pal is
tobb mindenben valtoztatott.. Egyetlen egyhaz allaspontja
sem valtozatlan  minden kerdesben.

Istvan

Maria Egorov ) wrote:
> ARE HUNGARIANS MONGOLS? (Revised Version)Version 3
> 
> 
>The Hungarians does not look any more Mongoloids for the same reasons the
>Turks in Istanbul
>look European.
> 
>It is also true that the Hungarians of today look European.But their
>roots are Mongolic.
> 
>From Britannica :(Languages of the world)
> 
>"Racially the Uralic people present an unhomogeneous picture.In general
>they may be considered
>a bland of Europeans and Mongoloid types,with the more western
>groups(especially the Hungarians,Baltic-Finnic and Erzya Mardvin groups)
>being strongly European and those of the Urals primarily Mongoloid".
> 
 
>From "Britannica"(Languages of the world).
> 
>"Recent study indicates that it is posible to speak of a Uralic racial
>type,an intermediate stage between the European and the Mongoloid,the
>basic features of which are medium-dark to dark hair and eye colour,
>relatively small stature and often a concave bridge of the nose".
>(Hungary is part of Uralic racial type).
> 
 
> 
>From "1000 years of Hungary" By Emil Lengyel.
> 
> 
>"The experience the Magyars left with the Western world was so traumatic
>that even generations later people form the West saw the Hungarians as
>apocalyptic monsters. Bishop Otto of Freysing spoke of the exterior of
>the Hungarians as ferocious at the time of the Crusades :(Their eyes
>are sunken,their stature is short,their behavior wild,their language
>barbarous,so that one can either accuse fate or marvel at divine patience
>for having permitted these monsters the possession of an enchanting
>land)".
> 
> 
>From "History of Hungary" By Denis Sinor
> 
> 
>"Though, geographically speaking, of European origin, the Hungarians who
> 
>settled in the Danube valley were,spiritually and materially, Asiatics,
>and belonged to the great Central Euroasiatic cultural family whose
>members lived dispersed form the Danube to China, from Persia and India
>to the Arctic. The Hungarian bows and arrows...were of exactly the same
>type as those used in Central Asia.
> 
>"It is, however quite certain that the Mongoloid type was well
>represented among them(Hungarians), and that they were, on the whole, of
>rather short stature, with short legs, bowed through continuous riding".
> 

Hi all,

I find this issue very intriguing.
How did happen that today's hungarians look so european starting from
an asian root ?
I was in Budapest this summer (nice city BTW) and it looked to me 
that hungarians are blond or dark-blond in an 80% proportion.
Of course it is a subjective ratio but comparing with romanians 
definetely the hair color of the average romanian is darker.

I guess that this "blond hair" is a slavic or/and germanic
heritage but what I find unbeleavible is the lack of 
mongolic heritage. It makes me think that the slavs and
germans were very numerous compared with the magyar invaders.
How did those magyars managed to impose their language to a
such overwhelming majority ?
Why didn't happen the same thing as with the bulgars ?
The situation should have been similar. An asian invader
submiting a slavic (germanic ?) population.
Why the present day bulgarians consider themselves slavs and have
a slavic language while the hungarians kept their language ?

Genuinely curious,

Cristian Alb