SAVE FILE:
>>In article >,
>>Joe Pannon > wrote:
>>>Fiuk, ez a kolcsonos nyelvoltogtes kezd eleg unalmas lenni.  Higyetek
>>>el, semmivel sem lesz kisebb a renometok, ha nem ragaszkodtok az utolso
>>>szohoz a koltovel valo kicsinyes vitaitokban.
>>>Joe

PLUNK
>In article >,
>Gyorgy Kovacs > wrote:
>>Marmint a kicsinyes latszatkoltovel valo vitakat erted. :-)
>>Mit gondolsz Gabor?

PLOP
In article >, 
 says...
>Engem inkabb a csomo kis vita a romanokkal meg szlovakokkal untatott, de ha 
>valaki azt elvezi, akkor miert legyek valami jo elrontoja? Megnyomtam az 
>"n" billentyut, es kesz.
>Bar, amit szandekoztam, elertem az ismeretlen latszatkoltovel szemben: most 
>mar teljesen biztos vagyok benne, hogy egy tehetsegtelen barom, mint ahogy
>felesege is az.
>Azt, hogy mit csinalj, Gyuri, ne tolem kerdezd! Ha jonak latod, huzzal be
>a(nnak a majom kanadainak! Ha nagyon beidegesit, biztos, hogy irni fogok.
   )
  ( (
   ) )
  ( (
>Gabor

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In article >,
Joe Pannon > wrote:
 |=====================================================================|
 | Fiuk, ez a kolcsonos nyelvoltogtes kezd eleg unalmas lenni.         |
 | Higyetek el, semmivel sem lesz kisebb a renometok, ha nem           |
 | ragaszkodtok az utolso szohoz a koltovel valo kicsinyes vitaitokban.|
 |=====================================================================|

In article >,
Gyorgy Kovacs > wrote:
 |=====================================================================|
 | Marmint a kicsinyes latszatkoltovel valo vitakat erted. :-)         |
 | Mit gondolsz Gabor?                                                 |
 |=====================================================================|

In article >,
 (Gabor Barsai) wrote:
 |=====================================================================|
 | Engem inkabb a csomo kis vita a romanokkal meg szlovakokkal untatott|
 | de ha valaki azt elvezi, akkor miert legyek valami jo elrontoja?    |
 | Megnyomtam az "n" billentyut, es kesz. Bar, amit szandekoztam,      |
 | elertem az ismeretlen latszatkoltovel szemben: most mar teljesen    |
 | biztos vagyok benne, hogy egy tehetsegtelen barom, mint ahogy       |
 | felesege is az. Azt, hogy mit csinalj, Gyuri, ne tolem kerdezd! Ha  |
 | jonak latod, huzzal be annak a majom kanadainak! Ha nagyon          |
 | beidegesit, biztos, hogy irni fogok. Gabor                          |
 |=====================================================================|

There are all kinds of genres of poetry, and within each genre, assorted
permutations. I've written lyrical poetry -- which those in the know have
responded to in kind -- much to my satisfaction. I've also engaged in
unconventional "poetry". I put it in quotation marks because it has carried
an assortment of descriptive labels -- concrete poetry, typewriter poetry,
typescapes (as Magyar, Robert Zend put it), conceptual poetry, performance
poetry, calligrammes, etc, etc. I consider these all fine as they are, but
some particular manifestations are carried off better than others. I have
indulged in conceptual poetry and performance poetry which created a
response beyond my wildest dreams, but these are simply not postable --
they transcend the printed page/screen. The "poems" (wordscrapers) I posted
belong in the catch-all genre of concrete poetry. The general population
hasn't a clue that such a genre exists -- the general population's
acknowledgement is irrelev?nt to its worthiness. However, I find it
intriguing that two adult men react with such acute hostility to mere
graphemes and morphemes. They act as if they were the Luddites from
literary convention.

After Chist was crossed, his body was put into a cave.
From the cave his body disappeared. Where to?

To know the answer, ask we first, why the apostles had difficulties
to recognize the resurrected Jesus, when they know him intimately.

They had difficulties to recognize him, because they ate him before.
That's why it was difficult them to imagine, that he can appear.

This was the true Pesakh dinner: After that the Lamb was killed,
                                 He was also eatten.

+Mordekhai

Hello all Magyarians....

Look for my new film, Carpati, to come to a theater near you!  Carpati
is a documentary about the remnant Jewish community in the Carpathian
Mountains and their relationship with the Rom (Gypsies).  Features a
beautiful Klezmer and Rom soundtrack.

Read about the film and see the updated theatrical schedule, listen to
the soundtrack and narration by Leonard Nimoy, and view images from the
film at:

http://remember.org/carpati

--David Notowitz, Producer

In >
Wally Keeler >wrote:
                    |========| 
                    | PLUNK! |
                    |========|

In >
Gyorgy Kovacs ) wrote: 
        |=====================================|
        | What a shining methaphore,          |
        | what a brilliant creative wordplay, |
        | what a poem!                        |
        | NOT!                                |
        |=====================================|

In case you didn't notice there was no "shining" metaphor,
nor any pretension of metaphor of any kind in my post.
Are you creating a strawman to enable you to conclude: NOT?

I only posted a simple, yet satisfying onomatopoeia.

In case you hadn't noticed there was no wordplay here,
let alone brilliant or creative wordplay. 
Are you creating a strawman to enable you to conclude: NOT?

I only posted a simple, yet satisfying onomatopoeia.

In case you hadn't noticed there was no poem in my post.
Are you creating a strawman to enable you to conclude: NOT?

I only posted a simple, yet satisfying onomatopoeia.

Nota bene: for those who are poetically-challenged, I have utilized the
technique of REPETEND. 

Nota nota bene bene:
For those who are comprehensionably-challenged and acutely prone to 
confusion, please note:
The above post is not a poem, not a shining "metaphore" and contains no
"brilliant creative wordplay".

In article >,  writes:
> Ingman wrote:
 
/ Read Ivan N. Ostroumoff's THe History of the COuncil of Florence.  Follow 
/ threads bavckwards to the Byzantine correspondence with early Reformation 
/ figures.  Contrast this correspondence up to the period of the COuncil of 
/ Ferrara Florence with the smae arguments of East-West differences as 
/ covered at the Counci of Florence.  What you are suggesting as an area of 
/ thesis inquiry has some value but not before the earlier period is done 
/ properly.
/ 
/ Note the extant collection of Mark Eugenicus's disputations with Ottoman 
/ and other late beylik Turks, Orthodoxy vs. Islam.  Another area that must 
/ be thoroughly covered before you attempt the later period.
/ 
/ Good to see someone working on this.
/ 
/ Galina Schneider.
/


   and then if you really want the truth read some muslim turks
   in fact avoid the rest and just read them

In article >,
Gyorgy Kovacs > wrote:
>Pannon Jozsi > wrote:
>Abban egyetertunk hogy az ilyenekkel nem kell vitatkozni. Nem is muszalybol
>csinaltuk. Valoszinuleg hiusagbol, de hat miert lenne az o hiusaga fontosabb
>mint az enyem vagy Gabore, vagy Anna Smith-e'.

Nem is annyira a hiusaga bantott, hanem a kepmutatasa. A felesege attol gurult
be, hogy megkerdeztem, "are there any chicks reading this ng". Mire nehany
igenlo valasz jott. A Wally valahogy belecsatlakozott, es otlettelennek es
sertonek tartotta az egeszet, majd az Anna-t egy "dried up dumb cunt"-nak
nevezte. Tenyleg otletes es nem serto. Majd elkezdte ecsetelni, milyen
otletes, meg hogy kinyomtattak a verseit. Valahogy a szokarcolokat, meg az
ugyetlen szojatekokat nem tartottam tul otletesnek, es sehol nem talalkoztam
konyveivel.

Szerintem a Seton-Watson-hoz hasonlitani, meg kb. olyan, mint ha Petofi-hez
hasonlitanam: kozel se jon hozza.

>>Jozsi
>A fo gondolatban egyetertunk. A tobbirol meg tenyleg nem erdemes vitatkozni.
>Gyuri

Amen!

Gabor

 wrote:
> 
>  Subject: Whose Language? Whose Education? (was Re: Hungarians in Romania
> ---(7)--- Education in Minority Language     (repost)
> From: Mihai Caragiu >
> Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 03:30:06 GMT
> Message-ID: >
> 
> Whose Language? Whose Education?
> Editorial by David Wingrove
> 
> (fragments from an older paper from the Romanian Press Review)
> 
> [...] The Hungarian Democratic Union (better known as UDMR) claims
> to speak for Romania's 1.6 million ethnic Hungarians. In an official
> statement,
> UDMR has attacked the Education Law as "more anti-Hungarian, and more
> anti-minorities, than all the legislation of the Communist regime."
> Representatives of the much-smaller Polish and Armenian communities felt
> strongly enough to add their signatures to the protest. But what does
> this
> dreaded Education Law actually involve?
> 
> The text of the Education Law does far more to guarantee
> minority-language
> education than to prevent it. Under the law, any sizeable language
> minority has
> the right to primary and secondary education in its mother-tongue. Once
> minority students get to university, they may conduct specialized study
> in
> their native language - provided their basic professional training takes
> place
> in the official language of the country - Romanian.
> 
> There are those in UDMR who view this as an outrage. They want the
> guaranteed
> right to full third-level education in their own language. It is only
> natural
> that those born and brought up in a language should wish to speak it at
> work.
> It is also only natural that the Ministry of Education should wish to
> train
> professionals who can talk to each other - if necessary - without means
> of an
> interpreter.
> 
> The training of Hungarian-language professionals is not just a question
> of
> training. It is also a question of where those professionals will work
> once
> their training is complete. If minority students are educated in
> isolation from
> the majority, most will isolate themselves still further once they
> graduate. To
> pretend they will not do this is to pretend that education has no
> effect. To
> mis-quote Muriel Sparks' school-teacher Miss Jean Brodie, "Give me a
> minority
> language-speaker at an impressionable age, and he is mine for life!" A
> professional education in Hungarian would direct graduates to work
> almost
> exclusively in those areas of Transylvania that have a large
> concentration of
> Hungarians.
> 
> But how many doctors, lawyers, engineers and researchers can a community
> of 1.6
> million people hope to absorb? Training someone to work within a narrow
> ethnic
> community may have been practical 100 years ago, when most people could
> be
> relied on to make a career in their native town. In the 1990s, fewer and
> fewer
> people make a career in their native country - never mind in their
> native town,
> region or province. Less and less professional communication takes place
> on a
> local level. More and more of it is national and - yes - international.
> 
> By insisting on full third-level education in Hungarian, UDMR activists
> are not
> just flying in the face of the Romanian government. They are flying in
> the face
> of the whole world. If UDMR gets what it wants, the Hungarian community
> will
> become more insular and isolated within Romania. Difficulty in finding
> work
> outside the Hungarian community will add to the myth that Hungarians in
> Romania
> are second-class citizens. If anyone does want to be a second-class
> citizen,
> then minority-language education is the way to go about it.
> 
> Nobody - not even the most unpleasant extremists in certain political
> parties -
> would dispute the right of ethnic Hungarians to keep their language and
> culture, in areas where that language and culture are essential. On a
> recent
> visit to Tirgu Mures, I missed a chance to see Peter Schaffer's Equus
> performed
> by a Hungarian theatre company in Hungarian. (I have always found this
> play
> rather dreary, and thought Hungarian might improve it!) However, in
> areas where
> national and international communication are indispensable, Hungarian
> activists
> would do well to recognise that the future is not to be found within
> their
> narrow interests.
> 
> International and, particularly, European observers would do well to
> step out
> of the minority language dispute. If they allow the dust to settle a
> bit, they
> may get a rare glimpse of reality. Despite its troubled history and its
> undeniably chaotic present, Romania is a largely successful multi-ethnic
> society. "Largely" is an important word here. With the possible
> exception of
> Switzerland, an entirely successful multi-ethnic society does not exist,
> and
> never has. International bodies have been ready to overlook the many
> things
> Romania does wrong - when it suits their political agenda to do so.
> Amazing
> that they cannot forgive one of the few things Romania does right!
> 
> (Editor's note: David Wingrove is a free-lance journalist based in
> Bucharest.
> He can be reached through the Romanian Press Review offices at Tel:
> (40-1)
> 312-6237 or E-mail: )
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
> [Image]Back to this issue's Table of Contents or to the Romanian Press
> Review
> Home Page
> 
> Copyright 1995 Romanian Press Review

Hello SCM:
The article below was mailed to Mr. Wingrove, the author of the article
above posted by Crelu:

Dear Mr. Wingrove:

I had a chance to read your article regarding the language issue in
Transylvania.  Your editorial, though, seemed to be based on a
misunderstanding of the issues.  As an American, and educated here with
an M.A. in International Affairs, I know quite well the misconceptions
and cultural bias of western journalists on a variety of issues
regarding Central and Eastern Europe.  The situation in Transylvania is
a very special and complicated issue.  It cannot be compared to
Switzerland nor any other region with the exception of Slovakia or
Northern Serbia which all have sizable Hungarian and other ethnic
"minorities" and face severe discrimination and ethnic cleansing.  The
Treaty of Trianon which granted all of Transylvania, the Banat and other
Hungarian territories to Romania guaranteed the continued ability for
all now minorities to study in their own languages.  The issue of
language in higher education should be decided by the Hungarians.  Most
of their schools and civic organizations were closed or leaders replaced
by Romanians. A few Universities remain, such as in Kolozsvar.  Though
your argument is logical, that there should be a common language to
communicate, I don't think that Hungarians (long known for their
abilities to learn other languages) will ever have a problem with
communicating with their Romanian neighbors.  The US has no "official
language," yet it its extremely diverse peoples have been able to
communicate.  Switzerland developed naturally into its modern form of
multi-ethnicity.  Transylvania too developed naturally as part of
Hungary with many groups coming to settle, including Romanians.  The
question of justice in the taking of Transylvania from Hungary is
another question.  But keep this in mind -- would it be fair for Cubans
in Miami to demand South Florida be made part of Cuba simply because
they are now a majority?  Or Mexicans in Southern California?  These are
real issues here in the US as just a few weeks ago there were
demonstrations in Washington, DC where some demanded a new nation be
formed out of Southern California.  I would also question the validity
of 1200 year-old land claims and Romanian fixation on ancient Roman
provinces.  Hungarians see any move to limit their freedom in a
different light than you or the Romanians.  They have lived through over
75 years of concerted efforts to eradicate them and form a "pure"
Romanian state. Their lands were taken away, and entire villages were
scheduled for complete destruction.  The Slovaks tried to forbid the use
of Hungarian in church services, and recently made the playing of the
Hungarian national anthem illegal at ANY event unless a Hungarian
delegation was officially invited by the Slovak government.  The issues
are real and tragic and affecting the inhabitants in all former
Hungarian territories.  You need to be more sensitive to the feelings
and needs of the Hungarians in Romania. The question of whether
Hungarians should be forced to speak or learn Romanian or be separate
culturally should be for them to decide in their homeland in which they
have lived for over a 1100 years.   

Thanks for reading...
HipCat
-- 
Visit my homepage!  http://mason.gmu.edu/~achassel/

Wally Keeler > wrote:
>>Azutan meg szereti a szojatekokat,
>|Rejto" Jeno": 'En szeretek pofozkodni!' - 'Akkor mie'rt nem tanul meg?'
>|(Elatkozott part)
>Slap? I've found verbal nukes to be more effective and satisfactory.
Obviously you could not understand the analogy.
Joe Pannon wrote:
>Azutan meg szereti a szojatekokat.
Akkor mie'rt nem tanul meg?

>Actually it ended for me when I posted my first PLUNK!
Then what are you still doing here?

>If I get on your nerves, as you claim, then you either have a thin-skin or
>else I am far better at provoking people than I give myself credit for.
Actually that's the only thing you are good at. Go ahead, collect the credits.

Igen tisztelt levelezotarsak !

Alabbi felkeresem, felhivasom most negyedszer jelenik meg az SCM-ben. 
Kaptam visszajelzest ra Europabol, Del-Afrikabol, Ausztraliabol, ott elo 
magyaroktol, segiteni kesz tarsaktol.
Az amerikai kontinens magyarjai kozul senki, meg csak erdeklodo sem 
akadt.
Csak magamban, felhivasomban keresem a hibat, mert alig kepzelheto el, 
hogy egyetlen amerikai magyar sem akad, aki segiteni akarna. 
Valoszinuleg az anyagi feltetelek is rendelkezesukre allnak.

 Arra kerem Onoket, sziveskedjenek nehany sorban ramutatni felkeresem 
hibaira, hogy megerthessem, mit kell a siker erdekeben maskent tennem. 
Meg azt sem tartom kizartnak, hogy - pestiesen szolva,- "eltevesztettem 
a hazszamot" nem ott, nem Onok kozott kellene partnereket keresnem, 
hanem az amerikai magyarsag mas forumain. Ilyen iranyu utmutatast is 
orommel es koszonettel fogadok.

Koszonom, hogy figyelemre meltattak levelemet es erdeklodessel varom, 
remelem eszreveteleiket akar az SCM.-ben, akar a felhivas vegen szereplo 
e-mail cimemen.

Tisztelettel

Dr. Lantos Arpad

A felhivas:


Magyarok figyelmebe!

Keresem barhol a vilagon a Magyarorszagon kivul elo, de magyarul beszelo
szemelyeket,csaladokat, akik szivesen latnanak Magyarorszagrol
kiutazo,vilagot latni kivano magyar szemelyeket, vagy csaladokat
mersekelt napi osszegert.

Cim-katalogust allitok ossze a jelentkezokbol, amelyben mindenki az
altala megadott feltetelekkel szerepel. Minden jelentkezo
meghatarozhatja, hogy mit tud nyujtani. A legfontosabb a
szallaslehetoseg, de ezen felul is mod van mas
szolgaltatasokokat felkinalni, peldaul reggelit, vagy vacsorat, esetleg
teljes ellatast is. Fontos lehet, hogy vallalja az erkezok varasat a
palyaudvaron, vagy a repuloteren, de lehet vallalni programszervezest,
vagy az erkezok segiteset a nevezetessegek megtekintesenel, egyszeru
tolmacsolassal egybekotott amator idegenvezetest is. Fontos lehet meg
konyha-hasznalat felkinalasa, elemiszerek hutoben valo tarolasa, stb.

 Nagyon sok magyar honfitarsunk azert nem utazhat, mert a kulfoldi
szallas koltsegei messze meghaladjak fizetokepesseget. Ezert nagyon
fontos, hogy az erre vallalkozok szereny arakat kerjenek
szolgaltatasaikert. A koltsegek csokkentese erdekeben a cim-katalogusba
torteno felvetel dijtalan.

 A tenylegesen kiutazok a szallasadonak kozvetlenul fizetik majd az
elore megallapodott dijat.
Minden kiutazast elore egyeztetunk, minden megallapodast irasban
rogzitunk.
Az egyeztetes tortenhet az Interneten, vagy levelposta, vagy telefon,
fax utjan.
Minden jelentkezonek valaszolunk, kivansaga szerinti modon, de lehetoleg
E-mailt hasznalunk.
Szivesen fogadjuk,ha Onok bemutatjak kornyezetuket es az ott adodo
lehetosegeket,amelyek a kiutazoknak elmenyt jelenthetnek. Egyarant
erdekes lehet valamely nagyvaros, vagy a szep termeszeti kornyezet,
sportolasi lehetosegek, vagy kulturalis esemenyek, esetleg hires
muzeumok  meglatogatasanak lehetosege. Orommel fogadunk fenykepeket,
akar videofelveteleket is, amelyeket a kiutazni vagyoknak be tudunk
mutatni.

Ha felkeresem elnyerte tetszeset, kerem, hivja fel ra magyarul beszelo
ismerosei, baratai figyelmet is. Szeretettel varom jelentkezesuket.

E-mail: 

 Kivansag eseten levelpostai uton megadom cimemet es/vagy
telefonszamomat.

-- 
Dr Lantos Arpad
mernok