Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
HIX SCM 194
Copyright (C) HIX
1995-12-16
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 AAYH 12.1 (mind)  29 sor     (cikkei)
2 Re: *** FORUM *** #1823 (mind)  10 sor     (cikkei)
3 Gay rights in Romania: again "printre codasii Europei" (mind)  143 sor     (cikkei)
4 Re: Slovakia & Sweden (mind)  112 sor     (cikkei)
5 re. recognizing unfairness (mind)  45 sor     (cikkei)
6 re. RE. re. an answer wo w. keeler but not only (mind)  14 sor     (cikkei)
7 AAYH 12.2 (mind)  34 sor     (cikkei)
8 Re: Slovakia & Sweden (mind)  64 sor     (cikkei)

+ - AAYH 12.1 (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

> ========================================================================
              AMERICAN ASSOCIATION OF YOUNG HUNGARIANS
                 FIATAL MAGYAROK AMERIKAI EGYESULETE
                     EMAIL: 
                      WWW: http://www.aayh.org/
> ========================================================================


12/13/95 CONVENTION UPDATE -- The New Brunswick Chapter Convention 
Committee wishes to announce that writer, dissident, and former 
member of the Hungarian parliament Miklos Haraszti will be the 
keynote speaker and one of our honored guests at the 5th Annual 
Convention of the American Association of Young Hungarians at 
the Hyatt Hotel, New Brunswick, NJ on January 12-14.
                
Miklos Haraszti was one of the earliest and certainly among the 
most vocal Hungarian opponent of Kadar's socialist regime.  He 
was expelled from Budapest University for "subversion" in the 
early 1970s and then sentenced to prison for his book "Darabber;" 
the sentence was subsequently suspended.  He He was a founder of 
the Democratic Opposition in 1976 and a council member of the 
Network of Free Initiatives in 1987.  He also participated in the 
Hungarian Roundtable Talks that ended the Hungarian socialist period; 
he was among the participants who refused to compromise with the 
regime on the critical issue of separate presidential elections.  
He became a member of parliament in 1990 with the Alliance of Free 
Democrats (SZDSZ.)  He chose not to run for reelection in 1994.

(New Brunswick Chapter National Convention Committee)
+ - Re: *** FORUM *** #1823 (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I am seeking out information on the Hungarian Uprising of
October-November, 1956 from virtually all aspects.  However, I have
specific interests, such as the view of Uprising veterans and others
concerning the RFE broadcasts to Hungary between October 23 and November
4, 1956, since their contents continue to be controversial after all these
years.    (Philip Skardon, 254 Schenck Avenue, Dayton,
OH 45409, USA   Phone - (513) 294-8594    Fax - (513) 294-4485)  I am
conducting research on the topic for the purpose of publishing in 1996,
the Uprising's 40th anniversary.  
Philip Skardon
+ - Gay rights in Romania: again "printre codasii Europei" (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Mr. Wally Keeler wrote:
 (Apollonius) wrote:
>>>>Under the current Romanian penis code, Article 200, paragraph 1 
>>>>imposes a total ban on lesbian and gay relations with a prison 
>>>>sentence of 1 to 5 years for any gay or lesbian sexual relationship.

>Mr. Dorin Taranul wrote:
>>>I agree, 1 to 5 years for homosexual activities is hard punishment indeed 

 (Apollonius) wrote:
>>To put homosexuals in jail, among other men/women, is a harsh punishment? 
>>Are you kiding me, Mr.? It's like putting them in paradise - and at
>>taxpayers' expense in top of that! ;-)

>I don't know what fool's paradise you've been living in Apollunatic, but
>jail in any country, is an unpleasant experience. Even a gay man has the
>right to say no to the sexual advances of another man, just as much as a
>woman has a right to say no. If the NO is ignored, then rape occurs, and
>rape, regardless of gender, is a personal violation unlike any other kind.
>You, Apollunatic, have a very sick imagination of what homosexual behaviour
>is all about. Probably overdosed in biblical stories...

First of all, I _am_ in favor of homosexual rights. My answer to Mr. 
Taranul was intended to be seen as IRONICAL: The irony - at least I 
thought so - being that while the intention of jailing homosexuals was to 
kind of keep the problem in check, prison reality contributes to exactly 
the oposite outcome. The smiley ";-)" was put there to exactly underline 
such ironicality. I deeply regret that it was misunderstood.

>Mr. Dorin Taranul wrote:
>>... yet, in all fairness, it is a much lighter sentence than the
>>one required by the Bible:
>>
>>    "If a man lie with mankind as he lieth with a woman, both of them
>>     have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to
>>     death; their blood shall be upon them."  [Leviticus 20.13]
>
 (Apollonius) wrote:
>>Just hope that the Allmighty will look down upon and sodomo-gomoraize you
>>for not following the 'righteous path' ad literam.
>
>The Allmighty would not stoop so low as to do what you suggest. What kind
>of "righteous back-alley" are you loitering in?

Once again, the intended message to our christian fundamentalists was: 
"You better watch out guys - those not following the path or applying only 
half measures - will be dealt with in a Sodoma and Gomora manner by their 
'Boss', and can farewell-kiss thei hopes for 'Heaven'. So, c'mon guys, have 
guts and 'deal' properly with 'The Problem'. 'The Boss' won't be long out 
on vacation, and when he returns...". 

 (Apollonius) wrote:
>>So guys/gals enjoy the 1-5 years vacation and have sex each night, and 
>>when that's not possible, touch yourself always bearing in mind the 
>>chobby boxom of our Parinte Teoctist. He, he, he...

>This is what you imagine? When you close your eyes, these are the images
>that you see? And you laugh "He, he, he..." I think you are having a good
>time with this Apollunatic.

My real intention here was to create the most contemptual attitude
possible against the jurassic park attitudes of some of our fellow men. I
thought that there was nothing more scornfull than to ask the gay people
do into their 'punishment' exactly what it is seen a problem by
fundamentalists. In the Islamic Republic of Iran where not more then 10
men can travel standing on foot in a mass transportation vehicle because
of 'concerns' that they accidentally may come in touch with female
co-travelers and as such commit 350,000 punishable sins per day in the
capital city Teheran alone, I thought there is nothing more contemptfull
that can be done against the regime as to 'preach' men to load up a
bus/vagon as tight as they can. And given the hypocritical nature of the
Romanian Orthodox Church and coward opportunism of its leader, the
metropolit of Bucharest Mr. Teoctist, throughout Communist and
Neo-Communist times, I thought he deserved to be mentioned in the message
'in the right place'. My appologies that I was unable to make it come
through again. 

 (Apollonius) wrote:
>>>>As the old say/lozinca goes: citeste si da mai departe/ read and pass 
>>>>it on.
>
>>By all means!
>>Dorin Taranul
>
 (Apollonius) wrote:
>>I'll leave this one to Wally. He is our expert in poematomazation 
>
>Finally you got something right. Congratulations!!! Poeticizing is an
>exquisite form of exorcizing the hideous ideous righteous and lefteous of
>the biblical pur laine.

After trying to answer Mr. Taranul's posting in a polemic attitude that as
I can see now - probably because of my stupidity/inexperience/lack of
wit/etc. - didn't come quite through, I reached a point where he got me: 
To the old Underground-Communist saying, that this time I tried to use to
spread Anti-Communist views, after formulating his witty answer he kind of
passed the buck over to me very neatly. I thought it was time to bring in
a more experienced 'fighter' then me in the field at this point, so I
challenged Mr. Wally to take up with him on that part. I knew that he will
do well on this task and give Mr. Taranul a memorable lesson in invectives. 

 (Apollonius) wrote:
>>of those hayseeds 
>
>Dorin is not a hayseed. He is the post-nutritive disposal substance that
>passes through me, the asshole, as he so mono-eloquently put it a few
>months back. I am a sphincter-winker ;-). Dorin keeps his poetic abilities
>in reserve, like the cautious who salt away all their money in the bank
>where it earns interest without publicity.

I can't agree more than that with you. Although it didn't come out as I
innitially intended, and wasn't dealing with the by me targeted part - Mr.
Taranul's clever 'By all means!' answer - I knew that I could count on you
in these matters.

 (Apollonius) wrote:
>>that do not follow ad literam the inquiz-administration of strict biblical
>>orders. 
>
>I bet you like it strict don't you Apollunatic? Tell us how strict you are
>with your women. C'mon.
>
 (Apollonius) wrote:
>>Just hope he will show some mercyfulness towards your soul.
>
>Probably more mercifulness than I'll show towards your hole.
>-- 
>Wally Keeler					Poetry
>Creative Intelligence Agency			is
>Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency

I can just hope that my above writen clarifications will put my message
back on the track I intended to, and back from the unfortunate outcome it
took because of my weird form of 'humour'. I'm very sory that the
polemical/ironical/scornfull nature of my answer somehow did not come
through and didn't catch no ones eyes ending up hurting the very people I
innitially intended to speak for. 
You all have hereby my sincere appologies.
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Your e-mail reply to this message WILL be *automatically* ANONYMIZED.
Please, report inappropriate use to                
For information (incl. non-anon reply) write to    
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+ - Re: Slovakia & Sweden (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

 (Per-Arne Sandegren) wrote:
> In article >,  says...
> >And back to original thema: certainly there are not one million
> >Finnish speaking in Sweden today, though as many might have some
> >Finnish roots. But for sure there are 300 000 to half a million
> >and at least half of these people need to have education by their
> >own language. 
> This theme is very boring and I am sick of it and some of you finns 
> incapacity to spot the facts against your propaganda.

No reason to be provocated and use extreme expressions.

> Still, let me burp 
> them up for you in a few points just to remind you. 
> (1) Half (150.000) need language education? Be serious. You dont educate 
> grown-ups in native tounge. They pick it up from their parents when they 
> grow up. 

You are absolutely wrong. It is mostly important to get your
education by your *native* language. It is good to study more
languages, also Swedish, but nothing can beat the language by
which you learned to think.

> Opportunities to learn Swedish are given to all immigrants.

Sure.

> (2) Many finns in Sweden are from the swedish parts of Finland with 
> swedish as their first language (give those parts back if they dont suit 
> you). They have not that much interest in knowing finnish.

I didn't speak about Swedish speaking Finns. Besides "many" is
small minority.

> (3) The finns that immigrated came scattered through the last four decades 
> and believe it or not the vast majority arent just able to, but also 
> willing to assimilate.

Willing to assimilate. Have you some facts?

> Most finns have done so successfully and are happy 
> with it! I know several former finns whose only drawback is that they keep 
> supporting Finland in ice-hockey instead of Tre Kronor :-). Be proud of 
> that, sincerely.

Swedish speaking Finns are also proud that they are not Swedes, but
*Finnish* Swedes. Still they are not willing to switch their language
to Finnish. What's the big difference with Finns in Sweden?

> (4) If youre serious in making the finnish immigrants in Sweden not 
> becoming second-class citizens

This was not my point. And that't not even probably, the other way
round.

> you should appreciate their efforts in 
> learning swedish flawlessly. 

I wasn't against learning Swedish in Sweden.

> (5) And for the rest of finns in Sweden there are AMPLE POSSIBILITIES in 
> any school to have finnish as "hemspr}k". Although the possibilities when 
> it comes to learning swahili has been reduced I doubt i concerns finnish - 
> being such a large immigrant group.

Perhaps you should also inform the Finnish president and minister
of education about this. They don't seem to know...

> And lastly, dont forget. You and our finnish immigrant comes from the 
> paradise of bi-linguality. 

Yeah.. I know. I think that this is indeed the hardest piece to accept.
Sweden has for a long time played a role of liberal country, but in
this one cause a surprizing chauvinism steps on scene. I've to
say, that I've been very disappointed even Ingvar Carlssons, the
prime minister, comments. If nobody, then I.C., I've always estimated
him as an honest fellow. In case of Finnish/Swedish Finland is
a giant step closer the paradise than Sweden. What comes commonly
to bi-linguality, I know that Sweden has long traditions in this
as there also lives more ethnic groups than in Finland. But basically,
also in Finland you have possibility to learn your mother-tonguage
if there are enough speakers (I remember the minimum is only five).

> >I don't understand what's problem with this if not
> >a Swedish chauvinism.
> You dont like your own legislation on bi-linguality but still you want it 
> implemented in a totally different country as multi-linguality legislation 
> then? 

No. I just wanted to use Finland as a mirror for Sweden.

If there's something I don't very much like in Finnish system, is
the *necessity* to study Swedish, even if you live on countryside
far in Finnish Carelia and never need Swedish in your life.
I've never suggested, that every child in Lund or Helsingor, should
study Finnish language some seven years. That would the Finnish system
embedded in Sweden. That tells something about the position of
Swedish language in Finland.

> Its very odd that the same persons showing such a concern about finns in 
> Sweden so often doesnt care at all about the finn-swedes. And thats in 
> their own country. Very fishy.

What is "fishy" is to generalize people's opinions. Do you mean
me, somebody else or what? If you point me then I like to know more
how I don't care and about who? If you don't mean me, then your
comment was in wrong place.

Jorma Kyppo
Laukaa
Finland

+ - re. recognizing unfairness (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

 (Gabor Barsai) wrote:
     
     >Why should they have developed an alphabet? The Zog people 
     >communicated with each other in unintelligable grunts and moans. 
     
     aah, i see......communication through copulation.....which also 
     explained their fecundity.....happy people, these zog-ians......
     
     >Hence, nobody understood them on Earth. They were civilized by the 
     >advancing Romans, who came from South of the Danube. Hence, some of 
     >the "locals" took up a Latin based language, and the Latin alphabet. 
     
     you know, they just wanted to impress the roman chicks...... 
     
     >Since THESE Zogs were quite intelligent, they took up Latin in >a 
     matter of days.
     
     isn't it amazing how far one would reach in its human (sorry, i mean 
     zog-ian) potential just to get those roman babes?
     
     >The one's that weren't civilized were assimilated by the Magyars, 
     >advancing from the East. 
     
     no big loss - they were the nerdy ones anyway....you know, those who 
     never get the chicks......like.....nature's way of selecting the most 
     able specimens and get rid of the most useless ones......
     
     >THESE Zogs were not so intelligent, and continued to "speak" to >each 
     other in grunts, 
     
     especially during those monthly circle_jerks rituals.....what a sorry 
     bunch......
     
     >thus the Slovak saying "Talking like a Magyar" ie. to talk nonsense.
     
     what do the slovaks know about anything, anyway?
     
     >I hope this cleared up the whole concept. ;-O
     
     >Gabor
     
     cleared up?......i thought it was common knowledge......gee, some 
     people are really dense around here.....
     
     -cristian (of true zog-ian and roman blood)
+ - re. RE. re. an answer wo w. keeler but not only (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>"Dr Alex M Farkas (Staff)" > wrote:
     
     >I'm an Australian born Hungarian, but consider myself Hungarian and I 
     >am proud of it, and as long as any Hungarians are alive,
     >there will never be peace between the two countries.
     
     you may consider yourself proud of being hungarian, but i doubt that 
     most of your compatriots are proud of being associated with you.  you 
     belong in a cave, naked except for a piece of animal skin covering 
     your shriveled reproductive organs,  with a stick firmly entrenched in 
     your closed fist, and a guttural, monosyllabic growl emanating from 
     one of your frontal orifices.
     
     -cristian
+ - AAYH 12.2 (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

> ========================================================================
              AMERICAN ASSOCIATION OF YOUNG HUNGARIANS
                 FIATAL MAGYAROK AMERIKAI EGYESULETE
                     EMAIL: 
                      WWW: http://www.aayh.org/
> ========================================================================


SUBJECT: New Brunswick Chapter Atlantic City Trip
   FROM: Robert "send checks" Kovacs
   DATE: Fri Dec 15 18:27:30 EST 1995

On Saturday, December 9, 1996 two busses hired by the NB Chapter
of the AAYH carried 70+ delighted members of the Hungarian Community 
to the Trump Plaza Casino in Atlantic City.  The event was a fundraiser 
to help support the 5th Annual National Convention of the American 
Association of Young Hungarians at the Hyatt Hotel, New Brunswick, NJ 
on January 12-14.

The party departed from the Hungarian American Athletic Club (HAAC) 
in beautiful downtown New Brunswick.  Many HAAC members went on the 
excursion.  As a matter of fact much of the trip's success is due 
to the tireless and selfless efforts of the well known HAAC Diva 
Ms. Maria Sarkozi, who encouraged many of the regions senior 
Hungarians to take advantage of the package.  Because of that, 
the trip was also successful in bringing Hungarians of various 
generations together.  

Everyone was said to have a good time.  It was even rumored that my 
landlord won a big jackpot.  (Now he can get us a new hot water heater).

The total income from the event is in the neighborhood of $1000.00.  
We're still waiting for an exact figure from Joey "boom-boom" Pavlics 
our shady accountant.
+ - Re: Slovakia & Sweden (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,  says...

>And back to original thema: certainly there are not one million
>Finnish speaking in Sweden today, though as many might have some
>Finnish roots. But for sure there are 300 000 to half a million
>and at least half of these people need to have education by their
>own language. 

This theme is very boring and I am sick of it and some of you finns 
incapacity to spot the facts against your propaganda. Still, let me burp 
them up for you in a few points just to remind you. 

(1) Half (150.000) need language education? Be serious. You dont educate 
grown-ups in native tounge. They pick it up from their parents when they 
grow up. Opportunities to learn Swedish are given to all immigrants.

(2) Many finns in Sweden are from the swedish parts of Finland with 
swedish as their first language (give those parts back if they dont suit 
you). They have not that much interest in knowing finnish.

(3) The finns that immigrated came scattered through the last four decades 
and believe it or not the vast majority arent just able to, but also 
willing to assimilate. Most finns have done so successfully and are happy 
with it! I know several former finns whose only drawback is that they keep 
supporting Finland in ice-hockey instead of Tre Kronor :-). Be proud of 
that, sincerely.

(4) If youre serious in making the finnish immigrants in Sweden not 
becoming second-class citizens you should appreciate their efforts in 
learning swedish flawlessly. And you people arent exactly helping when 
calling returners "hurri". A negative shit-word you wood-finns invented. 
Nobody wants reservations with 3:rd class people.

(5) And for the rest of finns in Sweden there are AMPLE POSSIBILITIES in 
any school to have finnish as "hemsprĺk". Although the possibilities when 
it comes to learning swahili has been reduced I doubt i concerns finnish - 
being such a large immigrant group.

And lastly, dont forget. You and our finnish immigrant comes from the 
paradise of bi-linguality. I can understand finns that arent very 
interested in learning swedish as Im totally uninterested in finnish. But 
on the other hand, most finns (finn-finns) arent able to speak swedish 
anyway. So whats the problem since youre not learning it anyway?

>I don't understand what's problem with this if not
>a Swedish chauvinism.

You dont like your own legislation on bi-linguality but still you want it 
implemented in a totally different country as multi-linguality legislation 
then? I think that Finland is fully capable of handling their linguistic 
issues, as Sweden can handle ours.

Its very odd that the same persons showing such a concern about finns in 
Sweden so often doesnt care at all about the finn-swedes. And thats in 
their own country. Very fishy.

-- /pa
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
  Per-Arne Sandegren   |  "World war III can be averted by adherence
                       |      to a strictly enforced dress code"
                       |  
      Stockholm        |    (text only)
       SWEDEN          |   
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

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