> Az ilyen megoldasok csak akkor fognak megterulni,
> ha Husszein megint lerohanja az egesz O:blo:t,
> vagy majd kezd apadni az olajszint!

Attol tartok ez nem igy van. Ugyan nem ertek hozza, de ugy hallottam,
hogy az egesz iraki hercehurca, sot a tavaji gazd valsagocska is azert
tort ki, es tart idaig, mert tulkinalat van az olajpiacon. Azt, hogy
Irak kiesik, barmely opec tagallam tudja potolni. 

Javitsatok ki, ha nagy hulyeseg...

Berta Krisztian

Sziasztok,

> ilyesmit alkalmaztak az Apollo urhajokon is, ha jol tudom

Igen, kb ez az a piaci szegmens ami meg tudta fizetni :-(

Masreszrol: a hidrogengaz tarolasa nem olyan egyszeru, a sok
jarulekos berendezes (kompresszor, tartaly, szivargaserzekelok
stb) felnyomja az arat...

Egyik sciam-ban olvastam nemreg a termofotocellarol: olyan napelem,
ami az infra es hosugarzas tartomanyt (is) tudja hasznositani. Ha
sikerulne termekke fejleszteni, oriasi jovoje lenne: mindenutt ahol
hoveszteseg van, a hasznunkra lehetne forditani... A sciam cikkben
azonban volt egy-ket olyan mondat, amitol erosen kacsa / csalas (de
legalabbis nagyon tavoli jovo) szaga van. Tudom, ez kicsit erosnek
tunik, de majd bekuldom ezt az ominozuis mondatot es meglatjatok...
Vagy pedig nem tudok angolul.

				***

Egy ivoviz-kezelessel foglalkozo tanulmany leforditasakor olvastam,
masutt pedig fenykepeken is lattam: az aktivszenes szurok felulete
idealis taptalaj egy csomo baci szamara. Brrrr... A viztisztitas
(a mostanaban egyre rosszabb minosegu nyersviz ihatova tetele),
*tenyleg* nagyon bonyolult eljaras. Magyarorszagon egyebkent eleg
jo minosegu a vezetekes viz (kiveve a nagyon rossz adottsagu, pl.
nitratos teruleteket). Amit a vizmu nem tudott kiszedni, az otthon
a hazban mar nehezen fog menni...

Udv///Laci

> ============================================================
Pollution Online Newsletter by Paul Hersch
Volume 2   Issue 14
Wednesday, January 27, 1999
> ============================================================

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Kedves Kornyezetvedok !

Erdeklodessel figyelem az alternativ energiaforrasokrol szolo
beszelgetest. 
En a hagyomanytisztelet jegyeben egy kevesse alternativ,
de legalabb nem tul kornyezetszennyezo futoberendezest, teglabol
rakott takarektuzhelyet es buboskemencet szeretnek epiteni. 

Nem tud veletlenul valaki olyan szemelyrol, aki ismeri a kemence rakas
fortelyait, es anelkul, hogy uzletrontasnak tekintene, azt hajlando is 
megosztani egy lelkes erdeklodovel ?
 
Udzlettel 

Sores Laszlo
geofizikus

Hali mindenkinek!

>Mi van ha akkumulatorok helyett elektrolizissel hidrogent fejlesztunk? A
>hidrogen elegetesevel pedig villanyaramot
>fejlesztunk (uzemanyagcella, ilyesmit alkalmaztak az Apollo urhajokon is,
>ha jol tudom) Ezzel mi a helyzet?
>Mennyire elkeszitheto, beszerezheto, egyaltalan hogy mukodik?!

Ez engem is erdekel!
Meg ugy  90 kornyeken mar megcsinaltak(lehet hogy mar elobb is,
de en akkor olvastam)  az elso hidrogennel mukodo autot!
Erre azt mondtak a hidrogent egeti el, es ekkor H2O keletkezik!
Azaz pa'ra!
Ami pedig a kornyezet paratartalmat novelne.
De (az en velemenyem szerint) az meg mindeg jobb, mint ez a mindenfajta
ga'z!
Ott allitolag a motor kenesevel volt a gond!
De .... ez csak humbuk!

Tud valaki valami fejlemenyt????
Vagy az OLAJBA'RO'KNAK sikerult eltussolni ezt az iranyt ... :((((
 Vagy az alapanyag eloallitasa draga!
(Pedig itt van korulottunk: a levego 70% hidrogen, a tengerekrol ne is
beszeljunk!)

Varom a reagalasokat!
Robert GiDa

Ezen temahoz hozzaszolva a realitas talajan maradva egy kerdessel 
foglalkoznek, mely tiz eve a szakteruletem: futes (hideg idoben az epulet
melegen tartasa).
Tehat egy igen elterjedt (sajnos nem nalunk, hanem nyugaton) valamint
energiatakarekos megoldas, techika. Egy gep melynek fizikai alapelvet
Carnot fedezte fel a multszazadban, es amely elven mukodo gep van
mindenki otthonaban, csak nem futesre, hanem hutesre (frigider).
A futesre keszitett gepek kicsit nagyobbak, de nem kiterjedesre, hanem
teljesitmenyre. Eme szerkezet a meghajtasara forditott energia (elektromos)
3-5-szereset vonja el egy kulso energiahordozobol (talajviz, levego, stb.) es
hasznositja futesre. A gep maga eleg draga, de pl. olajfutessel szemben 
egy-ket ev alatt megterul. A gep atkapcsolhato forditott mukodesre, nyaron
huteni tudja az epuletet.
A futoviz-homerseklet 50-55 fok, de ez hasznalati-melegviznek is elegendo.
Egy atlagos haztartas energiakoltsegenek 65 szazaleka a futesre es 
hasznalati-melegviz-eloallitasra forditodik. Eme tetemes resz csokkentheto
a harmad-otod reszre.
Egy 100 m2-es csaladihaz futesehez szukseges gep aramfelvetele 2,5 kW
eves futes koltsege 50-60 eFt. Elettartama hosszu, tobb evtized, egyedul 
a kompresszort kel 15-20 evente cserelni. Erdemes padlofutessel
konbinalni, ez meg a harmadreszevel csokkenti a koltseget.
Par ev mulva, mikor a napelemcella es akkumulator arak elegge lemennek,
megoldhato lesz a hazilagos energiaellatasa is. Egyebkent dolgozunk azon
is, hogy a gep onmagat lassa el meghajto energiaval.
Jelige: hoszivattyu (hoszivattyu)

UEDV: Gyurmo

Sziasztok!

Egy ismerosom irta ma du.:

>>Erdekes dolgot hallottam minap. Szeretett agrarminiszterunk azt 
nyilatkozta a teveben, hogy megallapodott amerikai kollegajaval, 
miszerint egyuttmukodnek gentechnologia ugyben<<

Tud errol valaki bovebbet???

Fidusz

> Felado :  [Hungary]

Kedves Andrea!

Akar hiszed, akar nem, most nem kotekedni akarok, csak ovni egy 
esetleges nagy csalodastol. Persze ha ...

>  A levelek szerint, eme energiak ellen leginkabb dragasaguk szol, 
de ez
> szamomra mellekes, 

az mas. De - gondolom - a penzed veges, es megsem akarod kidobni (ha 
megis, szolj es elkapom;-).

>ugyanis jovobeni haszna sokkal nagyobb, mint azt
> jelenleg szukos penztarcankat szemlelgetve gondoljuk.

Lehet, de errol Robert Gida irt: majd ha Husszein, meg majd az 
energiaarak az egig nonek... Ezt inkabb ne!

Azt nem tudom mekkora szeleromure kell epitesi engedely (nem mint 
eromure, mert ha nem kapcsolodsz halozatra, akkor nem kell, hanem 
mint epitmenyre). De az biztos, hogy Bekescsaba a szel szempontjabol 
legkedvezotlenebb teruletek koze tartozik (nem akkor, ha szelcsendre, 
hanem ha szelre vagyunk). Legjobb ENy-Dunantul. Talaltal mar 
arajanlatot olyan 1...10 kW nevleges teljesitmenyu szelkerekre, 
amelynel alapveto feltetel, hogy 3 m/s szelsebessegtol (nalatok kb. 
ez az evi kozepertek) mar egyaltalan elindul es mondjuk 7...8 m/s-nal 
(kb 5% gyakorisag) mar eleri a nevleges teljesitmenyt? Lehet, hogy 
hulyeseget mondok, de en 0.5 ... 3 millio forintra saccolom 
(toronnyal, generatorral, szerelve, lehet, hogy az akkutelep es az 
inverter mar bele sem fer) es ez fog kb. 1000....5000 kWh/ev energiat 
termelni. Szamolj! 

Ha megcafolod valamelyik adatot, veled fogok orulni.

A termalviz nem rossz otlet, de mint asvanyi kincset kitermelheted-e, 
ill. mennyit kell erte fizetni?

A realis lehetosegekbol - azt hiszem - a napkollektort, mint kisegito 
meleg(langyos)viz termelot kifelejtettem. Az meg lehet celszeru, 
kulonosen, ha nem akarsz mindent keszen beszerezni.

Egy dologban azonban vitatkoznek.
> ugy erzem a jovo energiatermelese
> szempontjabol mar csakis a nap a szel es egyeb kornyezetnek nem arto
> energiaforrasok fognak szoba jonni, plane, hogy a szen a koolaj es a
> foldgaz nemsokara elfogy, az atomeromuvek pedig eletveszelyesek.
>
Kornyezetnek kevesse arto lehet egy szen-, olaj- stb. eromu is, a 
fosszilis energiahordozok elfogyasa meg nem realis veszely es az 
atomeromuvek semmivel nem "eletveszelyes"-ebbek, mint barmely 
konvencionalis ipari technika, pl. a szelkerek gyartashoz szukseges 
banyaszat, kohaszat, feldolgozo ipar, szallitas...
(Tudom, ezt sokan nem hiszik el, pedig ez tenyekkel tamaszthato ala.)

Mas. Steve otlete.

>Egy otlet csupan!
>Mi van ha akkumulatorok helyett elektrolizissel hidrogent 
>fejlesztunk? A
>hidrogen elegetesevel pedig villanyaramot
>fejlesztunk (uzemanyagcella, ilyesmit alkalmaztak az Apollo urhajokon 
>is, ha jol tudom) Ezzel mi a helyzet?
>Mennyire elkeszitheto, beszerezheto, egyaltalan hogy mukodik?!

Hogy, mi van akkor? Koltseg es atalakitasi veszteseg. Egyebkent 
technikailag megvalosithato. De inkabb a szeleromuvet valasztanam.

Gacs Ivan

Szevasztok!


>Nnna, a lenyeg: vettunk egy Brita markaju kancsot, ami
>aktiv szennel es - ha jol latom - ioncserelo gyantaval
>mukodik, a hideg vizet szuri, egy szurovel kb. 100 litert,
>aztan csere. Hogy mit kell a hasznalttal csinalni, azt nem
>tudom (tudja valaki?). Van valaki masnak hosszabb tavu
>tapasztalata?
>
>Tisztelettel
>
>Csussz

Mar en is regen gondolkozom egy viztisztito beszerzesen de az
gondolkoztatott el, hogy a klorral es klorszarmazekokkal egyutt minden
nyomelemet is eltavolitok a vizbol, pl. fluor, jod stb. Ezzel meg a
gyereket is kiontom a furdovizzel egyutt. Van errol valakinek pontos
informacioja, hogy is van ez? 
Udv.,
kis Mihaly

THE HOTTEST YEAR YET

OK, all you movers and shakers and impeachers in Washington, here's a
hypothetical scenario that I hope might shift your attention to something
important.

Suppose the stock market starts to sink, slowly, subtly, with ups and downs,
but the dominant direction is down.  Suppose over an extended, agonizing time
the Dow-Jones drops by 30 percent.  Then in one day it plummets another 10
percent.

You'd ask what's going on, right?  You'd call in every economic expert you
could find.

Suppose that all but a handful of experts tell you the problem is not investor
hysteria, it's the real economy, which seems to be gravely out of balance. 
Businesses are falling apart, supplies aren't coming in, customers and
competitors are shifting around in unpredictable patterns, debts aren't paid,
contracts aren't honored, standard practices that used to grind out goods and
services and profits and wages have stopped working.  The cause of this chaos
is just one economic sector, a bunch of large, old firms on the edge of
technical obsolescence, who, grasping at their own survival, are crazing the
entire business world.

A few experts hotly deny this.  They claim that everything's fine, and even
that economic chaos is good.  You find that they are in the pay of the
trouble-causing sector, so you stop listening to them.  (I am assuming, dear
movers and shakers and impeachers, that you yourselves are not similarly paid.)

End of fictitious scenario.  Beginning of analogous facts.

All scientists, even those in the pay of biased sources, agree that carbon
dioxide in the earth's atmosphere has been rising.  It's now more than 30
percent higher than it was a century ago.  No one disputes the fact that carbon
dioxide traps heat.  Unsurprisingly, the earth is getting hotter.  There are
ups and downs, but the trend is clear.

Last year, 1998, broke the global temperature record by almost a half degree
Fahrenheit, which in climate terms is a huge leap.  Previous hottest years, the
last two of which were 1995 and 1997, broke the record by small fractions of a
degree.

Last year also saw in many parts of the world raging forest fires, torrential
rains and mudslides, floods, droughts, failed crops, and hurricane Mitch, which
killed over 20,000 people.

These weather disturbances are plausible, though not proven, consequences of a
climate thrown out of balance.  The doubters (in the pay of oil and coal
companies whose products, when burned, release carbon dioxide) say they were
caused by a strong random weather event called El Nino.  El Nino arises from an
unusually warm Pacific Ocean and is itself consistent with global warming.

The doubters are having a hard time summoning evidence for their side, as
glaciers melt and Antarctic ice shelves fracture.  Last year they lost their
strongest talking point, temperature measurements from satellites, which
disagreed with earth-based measures and actually indicated a cooling.  It turns
out that those results were warped by the fact that the satellites are slowly
descending in orbit.  When the data are corrected for altitude, they show a
warming too.

The most striking evidence is coming from nature.  People may be in denial, but
plants and critters are noticing changes and trying to respond.  A new article
in Science magazine shows that the consequence can be chaos in living systems.

Since 1970 scientists at the Central Plains Experimental Range in northeastern
Colorado have measured a total average temperature rise of 2.4 degrees F.  Over
that same period the dominant buffalo grass has markedly declined, while sedges
and other plants have taken over.  Buffalo grass is unusually tolerant to
drought and grazing; it supplies up to 40 percent of the diet of cattle on the
shortgrass range.

That ecosystem shift is just one of many noted on land and in the ocean.  Since
different species react to temperature changes in different ways and at
different rates, living systems are being disassembled, some critters dying
back, others taking over, others moving out.  Dr. Jerry Melillo of the
Ecosystems Center at Woods Hole says in Science, "Over the next 100 years, the
ideal range for some North American forest species could shift as much as 300
miles to the north....  The sugar maple could be lost from New England by the
end of the next century."

If the economy were falling apart, you would certainly ask, do we NEED this
industry that is causing so many problems?  If you were told no, much of that
industry's output is simply wasted and there are cleaner, better substitutes
for everything it produces, you would know what to do.

First you would stop subsidizing it.  With the hundreds of billions of dollars
you save, you could help consumers install energy efficient and solar-based
devices, thereby encouraging the energy technologies of the coming century.  

You would help workers and communities bound to the dying industry through a
transition to more secure livelihoods.

To demonstrate global leadership, you would not only ratify the Kyoto climate
treaty, you would push to strengthen it, because it goes less than ten percent
of the way toward a stabilized atmosphere.

If it were the economy, you'd act in a minute.  The economy can't survive for a
minute without the life-support systems of the planet.  

So what are you waiting for?

(Donella H. Meadows is director of the Sustainability Institute and an adjunct
professor of environmental studies at Dartmouth College.)

Bio bolt Obudan !

Megnyilt Budapest, III. Obudan a Bioda - Natur termekek boltja.
Bioelelmiszerek, natur kozmetikumok, gyogyhatasu keszitmenyek es novenyek.

Internet: http://www.extra.hu/bioda
Email: 
Cim: 1033, Harrer Pal utca 12. (a Florian kozeleben !)