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1 meadows-rovat (mind)  116 sor     (cikkei)
2 Computer Recycling (mind)  97 sor     (cikkei)
3 Sziasztok! (mind)  10 sor     (cikkei)
4 Sziasztok! (mind)  10 sor     (cikkei)
5 Re: egyenaram (mind)  31 sor     (cikkei)
6 Kornyezetvedok a nuklearis energiaert (mind)  7 sor     (cikkei)
7 Harmadik vilag (mind)  18 sor     (cikkei)
8 Környezetvédelmi verseny (mind)  16 sor     (cikkei)
9 Engem nagyon érdekel a környezetünk sorsa.Nagyon rossz (mind)  7 sor     (cikkei)
10 Gepjarmuvek kornyezetvedelmi ellenorzesenekszigoritasa (mind)  24 sor     (cikkei)
11 torles (mind)  2 sor     (cikkei)

+ - meadows-rovat (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)


During the weekend before Election Day, as midgets battled furiously on warped
playing fields, two giants fell, both yielding their lives peacefully,
knowingly, with dignity, to cancer.

The better-known one was David Brower, the great outdoorsman and
thunderer for
the environment.  Even in his seventies and eighties he was still
shaking up the
Sierra Club, inspiring Friends of the Earth, galvanizing college
students with
his passionate message about the inconceivably ancient, living, evolving earth
and the blind arrogance of the upstart Industrial Man.  I always thought of
David as a reincarnation of the fiery founder of our national parks,
John Muir. 
I can only hope that soul will cycle back to us yet again, continuing to
thunder, until we absorb its wisdom.

Don Michael was a quieter giant.  Much of his career was spent as a
professor of
planning and public policy at the University of Michigan.  He was a revered
advisor to corporate, government, and nonprofit managers, with a gentle
way of
stating difficult truths.  One of his books, published in 1973, set the course
for the "futures" movement and for leaders everywhere.  It was called "On
Learning to Plan -- and Planning to Learn."

The key word there is "learn."  Along with David Brower's reverence for the
natural world, the one thing I would most wish to pass on to the newly elected
leaders of this split, confused nation -- whoever those leaders turn out
to be
-- is Don Michael's commitment to learning.

Real learning, he said, requires three things: admission of uncertainty,
error-embracing, and deep self-understanding.  None of them easy for a
leader in
these times.  We have set up almost the opposite standards.  A leader must
pretend to absolute certainty, never make mistakes, or at least never admit
them, and never reveal personal vulnerability.  All of which is a
perfect recipe
for not learning.

"To learn requires recognizing what one wants to learn, and that means
recognizing what one doesn't know," said Michael.  He meant that
profoundly, not
at the level of not knowing what the surplus will be next year, but of not
really knowing how the modern globalizing economy works.  Not knowing
what a
voucher system would do to our schools.  Or what global warming will be
Or how to control the spread of weapons of mass destruction.  "You know
that you
do not know; you know that there is no honest way to put a number on something;
you do not understand your situation well enough to be in control of it."

Many of us urgently want to believe that someone, somewhere, preferably someone
in charge, does know.  Hence we run our campaigns the way we do and politicians
act the way they do.  We sense deep down that they are bluffing.  If we could
only admit that, thereby giving our leaders the space to admit that, we could
start to learn.

Said Don Michael: "What if uncertainty were accepted, and shared as our common
condition, and acknowledged by leaders rather than being denied?  Surely
we can
tolerate much more uncertainty when we have others to share it with.  [That]
would reduce the need to act over-cautiously out of fear of being caught
in a
mistake.  It would reduce the need for those defensive, self-protecting,
posturings that make it so hard to act responsibly and compassionately." 

"If you do not understand your situation well enough to be in control of
it, all
you can do is live in it and learn from it and try to create
possibilities and
see what happens as one goes along."

That's learning.  Admitting uncertainty.  Trying things.  Making mistakes,
ideally the small ones that come from failed experiments, rather than
the huge
ones that come from pretending you know what you're doing.  Learning means
staying open to experiments that might not work -- which Michael called error
embracing.  "It means seeking and using -- and sharing -- information
about what
went wrong with what you hoped would go right."

Learning leadership takes a solid, self-knowing human being.  "Both error
embracing and living with high levels of uncertainty emphasize our
personal as
well as societal vulnerability.  Typically we hide our vulnerabilities from
ourselves as well as from others.  But those who will have the tasks of plannin
and leading must have a far deeper understanding themselves as selves
and as a
part of other persons than they usually do today.  Without such understanding,
and the strength that comes with it, they will too easily succumb to pressures
to engineer people rather than to encourage self-discovery -- and they will
themselves be engineered in the process."

In 1996, preparing to re-issue his great planning book, Don Michael
wrote a
paragraph that seems as if it were written for his nation's confusion in the
week of his death.  "The depth of learning to be done grows ever more
Whether that learning can be accomplished remains to be seen.  

But, since we don't understand the dynamics of complex social change under
turbulent conditions, there is no reason not to hope -- hence to try. 
First and
foremost, we must accept our ignorance -- accept that we must learn, and
plan in
order to do so."

(Donella Meadows is an adjunct professor at Dartmouth College and
director of
the Sustainability Institute in Hartland, Vermont.  See www.sustainer.org.)
+ - Computer Recycling (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

IBM To Debut Computer Recycling

A vast glut of obsolete computer equipment was all but inevitable in an era
 in which a common cliche is that
your new computer is outdated by the time you get it home.
Now IBM Corp., one of the world's biggest computer makers, hopes to provide
 relief to a problem some environmentalists see as
one of the biggest solid waste issues to emerge in decades.
Armonk, N.Y.-based IBM on Tuesday is kicking off a program aimed
specifically at individual consumers and small business owners, two sizable
 groups of computer
users that up to now have struggled to find ways to rid themselves of
unwanted computer hardware.
``At IBM, we recognize as well as anyone else that advances in technology
have unfolded at a breathtaking pace. As a result of the advancement in
technology, there
has been an increase in the amount of computer equipment that is either
obsolete or that no one wants,'' said Wayne Balta, IBM's director of
corporate environmental
Indeed, a recent study by the National Safety Council's Environmental
Health Center estimated that 20.6 million personal computers became
obsolete in the U.S. in
1998, but only 11 percent, or 2.3 million of those PCs, were recycled.
Moreover, the NSC estimates that 315 million additional computers will
become outdated by 2004.
For years, most of the unwanted personal computer equipment in this country
 has gathered dust in attics and garages.
On a larger scale, the industry's solution has been to ship much of the
unwanted and environmentally dangerous parts to China, where weak
environmental laws allow
for a cheap but hazardous method of disposal.
With the volume of obsolete equipment in the U.S. rapidly growing,
environmentalists are becoming increasingly concerned that more and more of
 the parts -- all of them
laced with toxic chemicals -- will accidentally wind up in public landfills
 not suited to the disposal of contaminated materials. Or worse, the
equipment could wind up in
illegal dumps.
While the outside shell of a computer monitor and hard drive usually can be
 used again, most of the inner parts must be replaced either because
they're worn out or
outdated. And it's those inner parts that contain most of the hazardous
materials, including lead, mercury and cadmium.
Balta said IBM's service will allow the equipment to either be recycled
``in an environmentally responsible way,'' or donated to a worthy cause if
the equipment still
For a fee of $29.99, IBM will accept all manner of PC parts through its IBM
 PC Recycling Service. The fee includes shipping costs, so consumers need
only to box the
equipment and send it via United Parcel Service to Envirocycle, a
Hallstead, Pa., recycling firm. Consumers can sign up for IBM's program at
the time of purchase or
by contacting IBM.
Usable equipment will be donated to computer-needy organizations, such job
training and family services centers, through a nonprofit organization
called Gifts in Kind
IBM is billing the plan as a 'no strings attached' service because IBM will
 accept any brand of unwanted equipment, and no purchase of any type is
required. Most
recycling programs operated by smaller computer retailers are conditioned
on so-called trade-in policies, in which unwanted equipment is removed only
 if the consumer
buys new equipment.
IBM's program also appears to be the first aimed at individual consumers
and small businesses.
Dell Computers Corp., for example, one of IBM's biggest competitors, only
collects outdated equipment from large customers with 20 or more used
computers. IBM has
a similar program for its big clients.
A Hewlett-Packard Co. spokeswoman said a recycling program for individual
customers is in the works and should be in place in a few months.
Environmentalists praised IBM's program as a step in the right direction,
but some warned that computer manufacturers and government agencies charged
 with handling
waste disposal need to pay more attention to the issue.
``The disposal of 'dead computers' is likely to be the next big solid waste
 challenge that our nation will have to deal with,'' said Jeremiah Baumann,
 environmental health
advocate for U.S. Public Interest Research Group in Washington.
``A lot of cities and states haven't really thought about what they're
going to do with this stuff,'' he added.
Massachusetts is a notable exception, having enacted in March the nation's
first ban on personal disposal of computer screens, television sets and
other glass picture
tubes in landfills or incinerators.
Baumann said European governments are taking a more active position on the
issue, noting that the European Union plans to require computer makers to
take back their
products at no cost once the equipment becomes outdated.
Ideally, Baumann said computer makers will one day take the matter into
their own hands by developing nontoxic material for use in building
computer parts.
AP Business Writer
+ - Sziasztok! (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

A környezetvédelem mostanság egyre elhanyagolt téma lett, 
ami az emberek felelősségén alapul. Egyre inkább elterjed a 
hippistílus, amely az emberek nemtörődömségét váltja ki az 
emberekből. S ez főleg a környezetvédelem terén mutatkozik 
meg. Szerintem fontos a körülöttünk lévő dolgok 
karbantartása ill. megvédése a "gonosz" emberek elől. A 
harmadik világ kialakulása elsősorban az embereken múlik, s 
ilyen hozzáállással nehéz lesz a kialaktás. A harmadik 
világ kialakulása gyökeresen megváltoztatná az emberiséget 
és a felfogást.
+ - Sziasztok! (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

A környezetből nyert áram vagy valamiféle elemeket fontos 
kialakítani körülöttünk, mert egykor ez döntő fejlődésnek 
fog számítani ez emberiség számára. Itt van pl. a napelem: 
igen gazdaságos s mégsem terjedt még el a világon. 
Szerintem igen hasznos dolgokat fog még felfedezni az 
emberiség a környezeti hatások révén, s ezt kár volna 
lerombolni és megakadályozni. 

+ - Re: egyenaram (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Kedves Zsolt!

Majdnem mindennel egyetertek, amit irsz, de 2 dolog van, amivel
1. Nem Istvannak hivnak,
2. nem bukhat meg nalam elektromernok jelolt, mert csak 3 karon
tanitok es ezek kozt nem szerepel a villamosmernoki kar. (Ne
csoldakozz: az energetikat a gepeszmernoki karon tanitjuk).

Mas: en azt nem allitottam (de legalabbis nem arra gondoltam),
hogy nem lehet atallni egyenaramra, csak azt, hogy a mai
haztartasi-gep ipar nem erre rendezkedett be. A mai kereskedelmi
valasztekbol lenne nehez megtalalni a berendezeseket.
Ami az akkumulatorokat illeti: az nagy baj, hogy nincs szaunam
(hidd el, en sajnalom a legjobban), de ha lenne tenyleg csak este
(napnyugta utan) lenne idom ra. Mint ahogy a leghosszabb nyari
napok kivetelevel foleg napnyugta utan hasznaljuk a mikrohullamu
sutot, a fritozt, a mosogepet, a tv-t, a szamitogepet es foleg a
A 20 m2 nem szamitason alapult, csak hasrautes volt. Lehet, hogy
rossz hasra utottem. Ha van turelmed szamold ki. Elkezdem: az
automban levo 55Ah-s 12V-os akku 0,66kWh-t tarol. 2-3 akku
tehat eleg a mosogatogep egyszeri energiatakarekos programjara.
Teruletigenye kb. 0.3 m2, de tobb szinten is lehet tarolni.
Kozlekedesi utak kellenek az akkuk kozott tehat legfeljebb 50%-
os teruletkihasznalassal lehet szamolni. Valamilyen villamos
atalakitot is el kell helyezni. A hazifeladatot csak idaig tudtam
most megcsinalni.

Gács Iván
+ - Kornyezetvedok a nuklearis energiaert (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Biztos voltam benne, hogy elobb-utobb eljutunk ide, megis
meglepett, hogy mar letezik az Environmentalists for Nuclear
Energy szervezet es honlapja www.ecolo.org cimen. Ajanlom
mindenki figyelmebe.

Gács Iván
+ - Harmadik vilag (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

> hogy minden generacionak arra kellene torekednie, hogy egeszsegesebb
> allapotban adja at a Foldet a kovezkezo generacionak, mint ahogyan azt
> "orokolte".
A mai allapot szerint ez sajnos nem lehetseges.
Meg a fenntartas sem megy egyelore, es a torekves sem valami eros.
De legalabb szoban mar ez a kovetendo ut szinte mindenki szerint. 
Egyszer talan majd igazan jelentos tettek is kovetik a szep szavakat.
En is ugy latom, hogy a Fold jovojenek kulcsa egyre inkabb a "harmadik
vilag" (bar ennek a kifejezesnek ma mar semmi ertelme, mert ha jol tudom,
regebben volt a kapitalista vilag, a szocialista vilag es ami ezen kivul
volt, az a harmadik vilag, szocialista vilag meg ugye mar nincs) - azaz a
"nem Europa es nem Eszak-Amerika" orszagokon mulik, mivel a sulyos problemak
nagyobb resze ott kepzodik, viszont ezen orszagok kozul lassan-lassan egyre
tobben "megtalaljak onmagukat" mind gazdasagilag mind politikailag, ennek
minden pozitiv es negativ kovetkezmenyevel egyutt.(Pl gazdagodas, iparosodas
- de eroforrasok felelese, szennyezes, novekvo demokracia de kielezodo
konfliktusok stb stb) Ujra kell rajzolni a vilagterkepet.
+ - Környezetvédelmi verseny (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Üdv mindenkinek!
Én egy gimnazista lány vagyok, és a baráti körömmel egy versenyen 
veszünk részt. Ez egy Unios- környezetvédelmi... stb. témájú verseny.
Ha tud valaki segítsen  létszives. A két feladat:

1, egy levelezési listán felvetni egy-két T-mát és arról beszéltetni az 
embereket! Pl. víízszennyezettség, állatvédelem...

2, Aki tudja, kellene nekem, az 1979. szept. 19-én elfogadott 
"Egyezmény az európai vadon élő növények, állatok és természetes 
élőhelyeik védelméről" szóló cikk I.fejezetének 2. cikke, magyarul, és 
egy hivatalos fordításban is.
Köszönettel mindenkinek aki segíteni tud: H.Anna 

> --------------------------------------------------
 Mi az Ön MailBox címe? - http://mailbox.hu
+ - Engem nagyon érdekel a környezetünk sorsa.Nagyon rossz (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

cián után jött az ólom.Nekem otthon csupa ilyen környezettel foglalkozó cikkem 
és dolgom van.jobban kellene 
vigyázni mindenkinek a környezet épségére.Be kellene vezetni a szelektív hullad

+ - Gepjarmuvek kornyezetvedelmi ellenorzesenekszigoritasa (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

A gepjarmuvek / szemelygk. tehergk.busz /meg mindig nagy szamban talalhatok az
    amelyek ugy fustolnek mint egy gyarkemeny. Ezzel egyutt a kornyezetunket
nagymertekben szennyezik.
    Erthetetlen ez a tendencia ,amikor minden hivatalos szinten arrol beszelnek
hogy megszigoritottak
    a kornyezetvedelmi eloirasokat, ellenorzeseket - azonban a kiskapukat
meghagytak.   Sajat jol felfogott erdekunkben
    minel elobb be kellene zarni ezeket a kiskapukat. A motorizacio rohamos
novekszik-  ezzel egyutt a veszely .Kotelessegunk
      sajat es az utokor egeszsegenek vedelmeben mielobb megtenni a megelozo

   Erdeink es sajat magunk vedelmeben fokozott es szisztematikus munkaval
kellene elejet venni erdeink kipusztitasanak.
   Aki erdot vag ki annak gondoskodnia kellene az erdotelepitesrol.Erdeink
vedelme - egeszsegunk vedelme  is egyben.
   Nem hagyhato szo nelkul, hogy egyesek onos erdekeiktol vezerelve csak a
nyereszkedest eloterbe helyezve  fittyet
   hanyva a tobseg erdekeivel  veszelyeztessek mindannyiunk egeszseget.

    Fuzesi Attila
+ - torles (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Kerlek torold ki kozombos cikkemet!